Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Salmon seiners reportedly OK permit buyback

The Southeast Alaska Seiners Association is reporting that voters have approved the permit buyback "by a relatively wide margin."

More details as soon as we can gather them.


Anonymous said...

great now its our turn here in bristol Bay

Anonymous said...

Problem for you is that Ted is dead and he snuck this funding in as a rider on an omnibus bill. Don't you know how the game is played. You've got to grease some palms first...

Anonymous said...

This just proves seiners are dumb and just look out for themselves. Paying over market value for 64 permits for the next 40 years....brilliant. Now that the feds will have our fish tickets, this fishery is going to change in ways that will not be a benefit to those who remain. Either Bobby anticipates this and it was his goal to begin with or he is a Pollyanna.
When it all falls down remember who started this...Bobby and SEAS.

Anonymous said...

I'm a crew member who fishes with a captain who is quite generous when it comes to cutting checks. I just did the math, and between taxes (33.3% income tax) aquaculture tax (3%), and now, a buy back tax (3 more percent) I am now losing nearly forty percent from my total check. Why anybody would ever decide to tax themselves is beyond me. I'm pretty damn sure that at least half of the permits bought are inactive, so why buy them?

If anybody could tell me what we really gained from this apparent waste of money, please, go right on ahead.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

The poster @5:04 pm is the only one who summarized all of the problems with the buyback in a single question.

Anonymous said...

Crew Guy,

I just did the math too, and if you paid 33.3% in income tax, that means you made over $175,000, as a crewman. If you made 10% of gross, then your skipper must have grossed nearly $2 million dollars.

If guys are stacking that much cash as crewmen, then you'd have to be nuts to think more boats aren't going to re-enter this fishery. What you gained is certainty that those 67 permits will never compete with you again.

Anonymous said...


"never compete with you again."

Some people should actually read the Limited Entry Act of 1974?

Anonymous said...

Of course reading also confuses quite a few fish...

Breaking records of incompetence every day.


Anonymous said...

A crewman filing single with no dependents ends up paying about 30% tax. Doesnt really matter how much you make. On 60k with two kids I still pay nearly 17k

Anonymous said...

A crewman has no capital expenses (like fuel, loans, permit fees, etc.) to deduct from their wages like the boat owner does and accumulates no capital, like an extra permit to put up in a reverse auction.

Anonymous said...

Got are buyback bitches ...Thanks S.E.A.S !!!

Anonymous said...

@ Tax poster at 8:55pm

Generally I ignore ignorance at such a caliber, but I guess you caught me on an off day.

Tempted to scan a copy of my tax form to show you exactly how much I paid (edited so that my information is secure, of course) I will spare you the entirety of such embarrassment.

First off, I'm pretty damn sure that when I wrote out a check to the IRS, that it was one-third of the money that I had received for crewing on said seiner.

Secondly, if fisherman had so much money to be throwing around because of our apparent "stacks of cash", then why do you think that there would be people against the bill because of the 3% we're required to pay? It's pretty simple, sir.

Thirdly, less competition is nice. For the cost, though? I think we will do just fine without another tax to pay over the course of the next forty years, thanks.

Here's a few pointers -

You used proper grammar, I'll give you that. Your argument however was entirely off, poor information isn't a good basis. I'm not sure where you got your "33.3% means you made over $175,000". I hope it wasn't from a government site, because if you think that everything they say is true, then boy, do you have a lot to learn.

Sorry for the long post, but I tend to enjoy indulging in people like this. It's a personal problem, I suppose.

Tax ranter, signing out.

Anonymous said...

The feds have our fish ticket info now. There will be repercussions from this. Then Bobby, SEAS, all who voted in favor and the legislature will have to answer for this. This is bad. The problem is these seiners don't even realize what they have done and the state doesn't either. The state will no longer call the shots in this fishery and we are paying 3% to rationalize this fishery. Gee, we really are the brightest bulbs in the bunch!

Anonymous said...

Dear Over-taxed deck hand,

If you don't believe "the government" (the IRS) on how much to pay in taxes, then who are you listening to?

Go hire a good accountant and keep your receipts man.

The majority of the fleet is not on your side.

Anonymous said...

People who don't take the time to comprehend, look at the different facets, and then make a decision have ruined any "belief" I could ever have in an entity, especially the government.

For example, you assumed I didn't have an accountant, nor did I save receipts. I have one, and in fact spent one third of my check on tax write offs. Still paid 33.3% (big surprise there, considering that I've always paid one-third since I started commercial fishing), therefore nullifying your argument.

Also, I'd like to take the opportunity to thank you for pointing out the obvious; it's pretty apparent that the fleet isn't on my side, for if they were, I wouldn't have to pay another tax, nor would anybody for that matter. Why people keep voting to tax themselves for things that prove to be useless (Like hatcheries, for instance) is beyond my mental capacity.

Assuming Bobby T doesn't pull another great idea out of his ass, I should be fine.

Your friendly neighborhood tax payer

Anonymous said...

There you have it folks--Hatcheries are useless and we'd be better off not paying enhancement taxes. Let's close those crewshare draining hatcheries.

Stick to leads or web guy. Don't wander too close to the deck winch, and don't offer to watch the scales. Math and business are not your strength.

Anonymous said...

So the owner passes the tax onto his crew...??? That would be a pretty low life scum bag thing to do.

Anonymous said...

Dear tax guy,
As someone who has moved from crew to captain, I feel your pain. And yes when I do the mental math for earnings I always plan to give about a 1/3 to uncle sam. When you become a captain or better yet a boat owner taxes become a bit of a joke, a good fisherman with a better accountant doesn't pay anything (or very little) in taxes. If your going to waste money anywhere in life let it be with your accountant. Everyone on here bitching is just ignorant or out of touch with their crew.

Anonymous said...

@ 8:53pm Poster

I was actually vaguely impressed with the human race when I read your comment. Then I got to the part where you tried to call me stupid. So let me tell you, sir; I’m pretty serious business on the boat I fish. I’ve done leads, hydros, used the winch many a time, and guess what! I’ve even worked on the main! (Engine, that is. I’m assuming you don’t know slang, considering you said deck winch.)

I also like how you try to attack my mathematical knowledge, and understanding of economics, specifically business. You know what, you might be right on that. I know that there’s people in this world smarter than me. I’ll tell you what, though; common sense isn’t your strength. Why, you ask? Well, I just did a little math problem, and it seems to me that screwing with the natural balance of a very finicky species + even more tax = fucked.

How are hatcheries messing with the balance of fish? I’ll put it in middle school terms for you, because I’m a nice guy; If you grew people on a farm, in a world where food is already strained, would it make it harder, or easier on you? The answer is “It would make it harder on yourself, because there’s more people” Which is exactly what is happening to the wild stocks. Paired with hatchery fish spawning up stream with wild fish, creating some botched hybrid, the fact that the hatcheries aren’t producing, and when they do, they’re nowhere near the wild run, or my personal favorite; whales waiting outside of the hatcheries to get a nice mouth full of smelt when they are released.

Hatchery hating tax paying ranter, signing out.

Oh and before I go, @10:33pm The way we do our crew shares, it effects the crew as a whole. Many skippers do their crew shares differently. You should realize that it’s going to effect either the crew, skipper, or everyone, though.

Anonymous said...

Tax Guy,

I'm on your side. That pompous ass of a deckhead to dickhead success story is full of himself. You just keep on truckin'. 15% base and 15% SE tax equals 30%. Keep on blowin' capt. Hornblower, btw, I'm skipper for decades (middle finger). Deckhands take our s--t all day long and deserve better than a tongue lashing on here.

Anonymous said...

It's a public resource. All fish prices, esp. bonuses should be published in the public newspapers so crew can see how much you really share with them. Instead, forgetting the IRS is "us" and that something you draw down on later like Social Security is not a pure tax, you do nothing but attack false targets. What do you do as a citizen to fight the 1% who is robbing the middle class? Who do you vote for? Or do you only complain to draw readers off of the real tracks of the foxes in the SE Seine fleet who have scammed "us" for a self profit? If there was an end to the subsidies of CCF programs, and end to all subsidies, and real competition for you "capitalists" you'd have to go aboard and cry in the mirror in your stateroom. Quit putting up red herrings and straw men to attack and get it right. It's Thorstenrip and Zuanaberich who are the larcenists here. Thankfully, most fishermen know to just keep their mouths shut and take the money and run, esp. in the Me Generation behind this fraud. People with good values and principles don't play with other peoples lives like this. NOAA should cancel the entire con game. For the sake of the real owners, Alaskans and taxpayers all. If the IRS went away, most of you would starve to death because the people's government would no longer fund such larceny for your benefit.

Sammy J.

Anonymous said...

I'm sure that the IRS is going to find it interesting that two non-profits board members and their managers voted and implement the buyback and then put up seine permits for sale, regardless of what Bobby T will bleat - it is called self-interest and prohibited but Rob Z, Manos, Marese, Bobby T, and others participated; not withstanding the name calling of those who opposed the buyback as supporting the processors when it is a well known fact over 30 seiners are partners in Silver Bay, who they are is a closely held secret. These seiners, by reducing their competition also engaged in anti-competitive practices. But I guess the fleet was dumb enough to tax itself and vote in the buyback for the new robber barons and screw their own crewmen.

Anonymous said...

When you have robbob calling permit holders offering to give them money for a yes vote or to pay their postage i know he called over 60 p holders makes me sick but wait hold on you 58 foot holes cant wait to see the ocean angel 2 grinding at marsden with cable p line packing 300,000 pounds back to xip twice a day 58 foot limit nexy

Anonymous said...

When you sign your crew contract if you read and don't like it find a new job.

Anonymous said...

The 5:49 post should of stayed in school! mE dOnt no whAt tHay Talc bout. OCEAN ANGEL II is a nice boat.

Anonymous said...

Sammy j
U have some valid rants. U are right about the me generation and their greed. Unfortunately they control most fishing assets and therefore control the game. This is how the world works, it is all about who u know and who u blow.
The problem with twenty somethings is their inflated sense of self worth, and their entitlement issues. No one is going to give u a damn thing in this business. The younger fishing generation is going to have to get pissed, get together, and get moving.

Anonymous said...

Let's get down to the nitty gritty. The layshare contracts that you may be signing with the vessel may be legal and may be illegal. So yes, sign the contract and send a copy to the DO, so they can deem the legality. I know in the Bering Sea crab fisheries that many of the contracts are illegal and the crew is being paid fraudulently. This will be the next issue for the DOJ since the NPFMC decided to not follow National Standard #2 to collect the best data: crew contracts and reconcilable settlements with blind observation to the PSFMC so they might be able to tell the public who's making who in Crab Ratz. It's obvious the quota share holders are making tens of millions while the crewmen make ten's of thousands (if even that, like 1/2-3% of the net after paying the all the taxes [including the buyback tax] and all of the expenses). Yes, the greater majority of quota holders are being paid only after the raw fish tax (landing tax). And making the crews and vessels pay the expenses!

With regards to the buyback tax, if you're charged for it as a crewmen you can sue the owner as you are not receiving part of the payment as past ownership of a limited entry permit. The Bering Sea crab quota holders have been charging crewmen for the 30 vessel buyback since the inception of Crab Ratz, and it is illegal and there will be a huge price to pay by those that have charged the crewmen.

Now to the real story: the SE seine permit buyback is one of the biggest scams this sized of Petersburg. Bobbyt and Zuanich paying Ben Stevens as a consultant to get his father, Uncle Ted, to get the buyback federally funded was more of the racketeering that has transpired. Why anyone could ask the federal gov't to fund a state fishery buyback should have been the first question by the FBI/DOJ. Ben got a free ticket to skate since the prosecutorial misconduct by the Federal prosecutors sabotaged Ted being brought to justice.

More power to the crewman for speaking up! The ADF&G and UFA sabotaged collecting data from the fishing crews of Alaska because they don't want to public or the crews to know how much the captains/owners are making or what they are taking off for expenses and how little they pay the crew for Bering Sea crab rationalization and for SE seining. I was appointed to be on the crew data project team and put a proposal forward and fought for collecting the best data. The group was in discussion about using a hybrid system of plastic crew license cards (similar to the permit cards issued by CFEC) to swipe when deliveries were made and for non-electronic recording on fish tickets that could be entered into a data base later. The UFA rep that was participating by phone stated they would not accept the proposed idea and they would only accept crew collecting their own data.

This just goes to show how far the coersion exists in state gov't and with a fishing organization that is a faction as the crew data project was shut down from that meeting forward. Besides the consulting group that was asked to research the options and their possibilities left the option of swipe cards from the alternatives even though it was formally proposed at the first meeting and discussed as a possible option. Talk about disregarding the best option due to ADF&G getting pressure from UFA!

Anonymous said...

Page 2 "the Truth" and backed up by documents!

Fisheries policy in Alaska is so corrupt! From Arne Fuglvog that was a NPFMC member and Lisa Murkowski's Aide to Trevor McCabe that was Ted Steven's former Chief of Staff (author of many privatization laws that were forced into law as end run legislation not through the regulatory process) who was reigned in as Executive Director (the reward for getting AFA passed for the processors)for the At Sea Processors where he made 6 figures every year to now making millions on the board of Coastal Villages CDQ group. This just the tip of the iceberg as the corruption runs wide and deep from the AK Fish Marketing Board with Ben, Bobbyt, Trevor, Bill Hines, Jansen that owns Lynden, Ray Ruitta (E.D. ASMI), Duncan Fields, and a few more of the CBC and the way they paid the North Pacific Crab Association (BEN got paid for consulting from NPCA; KICKBACK!) to ADF&G. While most of the processors received a million or more to market Alaskan seafoods and that is what the charter for ASMI was set up for in the first place. Some thing stinks and it's wrotten to the core like bad bait and it's in the pockets of the thieves of Alaskan fisheries [all of the above]!

The buyback is just another scam to get someone else to pay for Bobbyt's wife and others wives second permits that should just sit latent. Did anyone figure out how much each of the those voting for the buyback will make on their boughtback permits? Now that would be the best information to put on this blog!

Everyone knows who I am, any guesses from the corrupt side!

Anonymous said...

I voted yes for this buyback, I think permit holders n permit buyers should get a annual report from NOAA / CFEC to keep people informed of the progress of the program .