At $1.20 & in the middle quartile, you certainly could afford a boat, permit, etc., especially if you're a watershed resident who takes advantage of the incredible BBEDC programs and the Alaska State Loan Program. Probably not a new boat however, but certainly a starter operation.
At $1.20 adjusted for inflation you would need a BBEDC program or the State to be another subsidized fisherman in Alaska. How about a little USDA buying program for pinks and then we could buy 58 foot limit seiners and join the food stamp fleet...
Anyone that knows anything would shake their head, especially after Dick Russel predicted the 2014 harvest with more accuracy that any current biologist at ADF@G. Every retired biologist really does shake their head.
Yes the adjusted for inflation issue, I shake my head too. Try to find a middle class working wage job and you'll shake your head clean off your shoulders. One comment from a desire for more local ownership of the fishery, and one comment from the perspective of the fishery only being available to those that need it as a tax write off. Is it a viable business model at $1.20lb / $4.50gal?
If we adjusted for inflation, we wouldn't get out of bed in the morning. It basically comes down to today's current market: does it, or doesn't it? I say it does. Take advantage of every available program, and proceed. Otherwise, "adjust" your expectation…negatively, and do nothing.
The inflation argument might make sense in a vacuum, but there are other factors at play. Supply is one of those factors. In the last 20 years, the supply of farmed salmon has exploded and now surpasses the supply of all wild salmon. Russian salmon is also a factor. Like it or not, the most discerning consumer (Japan) freely substitutes Russian wild stock and Chilean Coho for Alaska sockeye. This is a huge price suppressor.
It also doesn't help that we dropped MSC. Again, like it or not, MSC means more to the foreign consumer than the "Alaska brand". Of course we could have had both, but egos got in the way.
Oh I'm adjusting for inflation and shaking my head laughing all the way to the bank. The loan officers seem to think it's viable as they keep giving me more money. 24 years old two boat,s two permits, mountain of debt. Once that big ball of hot water gets here I'm gong swimming and hooking a parasail to the back of the bowpicker. No more slimy salmon just girls in bikinis. Nothing but sandy beaches out the window right now.
Bristol bay price and value is being totally manipulated by the majors to destroy the price. They have used every excuse in the book. Russian production hurting price--no that's a not true Russian production isn't as big as predicted and has no influence on Bristol bay...Canadian production 7-70 million... Oh that didn't happen and in fact the price has gone up for Canadian sockeye as the season progressed with the market expanding.. Lie again. What's happening is the price pressure downward by existing buyers to try an hurt silver bay. Instead of building up the market the majors are trying all they can to move the price pressure down. These companies are evil,horrid business people with no business sense... They are the Walmart's of the seafood industry. I read above people talking of supply and demand and trying to act like they are smart, your a sap you idiot. Your the type who believes your buyer what ever he says... Dollar- yen Did you believe that crap, that really benefited us a few years ago. I've heard every story in the book, bottom line is we have no power, scabs everywhere, union is broken, so you are at the buyers mercy.
Actually 9/16 @ 8 AM, supply and demand is part of the market equation, as it is with most commodity products. And, the dollar/yen relationship does effect price, just as it does in sales transactions of other goods between the two countries. These are undeniable facts.
As for the majors trying to drive down the market, I think you give them credit for being smarter and more capable than they really are.
To 8:51--- really ?? That's all you can come up with? Truth hurts doesn't it., it's great this forum where we can say what we want, every BB fisherman knows what 8Am says is true. Your a buyer who couldn't last one day on the back deck. Your our problem and we will be around long after your gone to Palm Springs with your cigar.
I am not 8:51, but what 8AM says is not logical. Why would we think that export sales of US fisheries products to foreign countries would be exempt from exchange rate fluctuations? And why would we think that fish products are exempt from the effects of supply and demand? The answer is that they are not. We just want them to be because it would just be great if they were. Furthermore, the majors are not smart enough to conspire to "drive down the market". And the big guy, Trident, is dumbing down by the day as the brains leave for greener pastures.
Dollar yen does matter in every other price situation but Bristol bay?? Come on.. Two years ago when dollar yen was 85yen to dollar we got none of it yet when it goes the other way the buyers sure bring it up.. Supply and demand, yes it matters in every other business but in Bristol bay for years runs have been small yet we got none of it.. Boy you guys don't get it..you think we don't know what's up. Does it hurt when someone calls you on your /?!, scamming scum is what the buyers in Bristol bay are...keep commenting back please so we can keep the post on how the truth hurts going
Trident is losing talent through the scuppers. Their loss is the other "bigs" gain. The market will be stronger as these guys push to steal market from Trident.
What matters is the buyer , wholesaler, and the retailer are owned by the same corporation!Marubeni an american corporation sells to the japanese corporation then sells to there satellite corporation, always controlling the price.So yes they can drive the price down. Tradex reported on 9/1/14 that the Japanese buyer where buying fish aggressively ,sounds like the markets hot. As for the comment written on comment 9/18 @ 6:25 am, that person talked about the cigar smoking buyer from Palm Springs, this I believe is none other than "AKA" the "Stroker". Swore under oath in Alaska Supreme court that he liked to lie to his fishermen! liked to tell his fishermen how shitty there fish were, yeah that's not driving the price down? If you didn't like it go somewhere else! Well there is some where else to go now its Silver Bay, the other didn't do so good. If we as fishermen could get enough constituents to get involved with the BBRSDA and maybe start a co-op, just a little one. Self marketers.Its are tax dollars maybe we use some of ASMI money too? The HUMPTY DUMBTY Corporation has a big crack in its "ASS" from Silver Bay,we just have keep moving forward and together we can shatter their hold on Bristol Bay!! Like the Comment before please keep this going (Wesley)
OK 10:38, let's suppose you are correct and that Bristol Bay reds are uniquely exempt from the economic impacts of supply/demand and currency exchange rate fluctuations. What you must be contending then is that the Bristol Bay buyers are collectively and consistantly suppressing the fish price and/or manipulating the market for those fish (or is it all fish from Alaska). Frankly, I don't think they have the brains to pull it off.
When you call the buyers scamming scum, you must believe they are fixing the price. Think we have been there before. Is there any better proof now than there was several years back?
We are finally getting there.. Yes they are manipulating the price. Within hours of each other they come out with the price.. Please will some government official step in and help us get these people to sit down to nagociations at the beginning of the season so we know what we are fishing for...right now we have to wait months for our money and even then it's a slap in the face 10cents bonus.lets say it out in the open now like we all say in closed doors. We get the bone, yes that's we all call it, So you buyers out there in the spring when you send out our money don't put price adjustment or bonus on the the check, have the ability to stand up like the men and women we are and call it a Bone because you really do treat us like dogs. Yes this is what we all think of you all, do you feel proud of yourselves knowing that though's who work for you hate you and can't stand the lies you tell, we know every game you play and puke when we hear it again and again. Wonderfull job you have done Peter Pan, North Pacific, Trident, Icicle, Ocean Beauty, AGS, you have really built up an industry to move it forward into the future, your fisherman hate you for ripping them off, you lie to them, steal from them, treat them like dogs. Great job. Now Silver Bay thank you for stepping in for now we can really get to see a company operate that the fisherman take pride in being involved with. The whole attitude over there is different. To you out there reading this keep it going, put in your thoughts. Buyers come on give it to us, all you do is put your foot in your mouths for we have heard your lies many times!!! I'm not scared but you are.....
If you believe there was no price fixing then why did Norquest, pan pacific, and others pay up to get out of it. We all know there is price fixing, pay off the judge and you can win anything...try another one please.....
Fishermen fighting amongst ourselves, wow this is something new...NOT. Silverbay our savior...Not. Appreciated for moving into our market...Yes.
However it is not a foregone conclusion what their presence will mean for us long term. Certainly looks good, but aren't they sending their fish to China for reprocessing? Sure that is cheap and many others do the same but the product is of lower quality (than fillets processed in the Bay), period. Isn't high quality what we are trying to achieve? Why yes, it is.
Again, I'm really happy they are in the Bay, I believe our price has bumped up because of they're arrival.
As for adjusting for inflation. The dollar is in the crapper and has been for years. Folks at our level can't do anything about that. This summer has been my largest grossing season since 1996, I'll take it!
Fishermen strive to deliver quality fish, install expensive RSW systems, icing fish etc, bbrsda, asmi market the fish, all this for whom? Look at inflation! Our prices compare to the 90's, looking at inflation? No comparison!
Bristol Bay fish companies control pricing period, look at them expanding at worst fishing seasons, buying canneries/processors while fishermen go home broke.
We need foreign processors in the bay, we need competition! Thank you Silver Bay for entering Bristol Bay.
SBS will need two more years to get to top performance in the Bay. They need more boats, need to start filleting fish and need a little canning to handle the #3 fish. Until they make those adjustments, they are at some disadvantage. But, what they have achieved so far is remarkable, In one year, they have built the biggest plant in the Bay and it probably gets better from here out. These guys think differently than the others. There is none of the canning mentality at SBS, and I would suggest that it is that very mentality, and the sloppiness/lethargy it leads to, that holds back innovation and ultimately value and price.
Having said that,I also do not believe there is a grand conspiracy to fix prices. As an earlier post said, the processors don't pack the horsepower in their heads to make that happen.
Someone please name the cigar smoking buyer from Palm Springs aka "the stroker" it's ok don't be afraid their name will be in the court record, but it's a billion times easier for us young guys to dig it up if we have a name.
The processors fix the price low, the fishermen want to fix the price higher. Questions?
With the threat of Silver Bay fleet drain over, the majors can now lower the price paid.
If 30% of the fleet (or more) were to belong to an association, a legally enforceable, unilateral call for a pre-season State moderated price agreement would be accomplished.
Wow....What an inaugural season for Silver Bay!!
ReplyDeleteIf not homeruns, Silver Bay has consistantly hit stand up doubles with the occasional triples. Biology has been kind and they have taken advantage.
ReplyDeleteAdjust for inflation andddd.... oh the last 200 million dollar year in 1990 is actually 578 million in today's dollars. Nothing to see here
ReplyDeleteI read stuff like this and just shake my head.
ReplyDeleteSo at 1.20 can someone in the middle of the quartile table pay for a boat, permit, and crew? Or is it only for those already in the fishery now?
ReplyDeleteAt $1.20 & in the middle quartile, you certainly could afford a boat, permit, etc., especially if you're a watershed resident who takes advantage of the incredible BBEDC programs and the Alaska State Loan Program. Probably not a new boat however, but certainly a starter operation.
ReplyDeleteThey at Silver Bay have without a doubt hired the right G.M good luck Randall Lantigne............
ReplyDeleteAt $1.20 adjusted for inflation you would need a BBEDC program or the State to be another subsidized fisherman in Alaska. How about a little USDA buying program for pinks and then we could buy 58 foot limit seiners and join the food stamp fleet...
ReplyDeleteI read stuff like this and I too just shake my head.
ReplyDeleteAnyone that knows anything would shake their head, especially after Dick Russel predicted the 2014 harvest with more accuracy that any current biologist at ADF@G. Every retired biologist really does shake their head.
ReplyDeleteLet me ask....Do those that shake their head fish in Bristol Bay? or?
ReplyDeleteYes the adjusted for inflation issue, I shake my head too. Try to find a middle class working wage job and you'll shake your head clean off your shoulders. One comment from a desire for more local ownership of the fishery, and one comment from the perspective of the fishery only being available to those that need it as a tax write off. Is it a viable business model at $1.20lb / $4.50gal?
ReplyDeleteIf we adjusted for inflation, we wouldn't get out of bed in the morning. It basically comes down to today's current market: does it, or doesn't it? I say it does. Take advantage of every available program, and proceed. Otherwise, "adjust" your expectation…negatively, and do nothing.
ReplyDeleteThe inflation argument might make sense in a vacuum, but there are other factors at play. Supply is one of those factors. In the last 20 years, the supply of farmed salmon has exploded and now surpasses the supply of all wild salmon. Russian salmon is also a factor. Like it or not, the most discerning consumer (Japan) freely substitutes Russian wild stock and Chilean Coho for Alaska sockeye. This is a huge price suppressor.
ReplyDeleteIt also doesn't help that we dropped MSC. Again, like it or not, MSC means more to the foreign consumer than the "Alaska brand". Of course we could have had both, but egos got in the way.
Oh I'm adjusting for inflation and shaking my head laughing all the way to the bank. The loan officers seem to think it's viable as they keep giving me more money. 24 years old two boat,s two permits, mountain of debt. Once that big ball of hot water gets here I'm gong swimming and hooking a parasail to the back of the bowpicker. No more slimy salmon just girls in bikinis. Nothing but sandy beaches out the window right now.
ReplyDeleteSilver Bay has the MSC label
ReplyDeleteSilver Bay had the good sense to see the value of MSC in conjunction with "Alaska". The others blindly followed the Pied Piper in Blue.
ReplyDeleteBristol bay price and value is being totally manipulated by the majors to destroy the price. They have used every excuse in the book. Russian production hurting price--no that's a not true Russian production isn't as big as predicted and has no influence on Bristol bay...Canadian production 7-70 million... Oh that didn't happen and in fact the price has gone up for Canadian sockeye as the season progressed with the market expanding.. Lie again.
ReplyDeleteWhat's happening is the price pressure downward by existing buyers to try an hurt silver bay. Instead of building up the market the majors are trying all they can to move the price pressure down. These companies are evil,horrid business people with no business sense... They are the Walmart's of the seafood industry. I read above people talking of supply and demand and trying to act like they are smart, your a sap you idiot. Your the type who believes your buyer what ever he says... Dollar- yen
Did you believe that crap, that really benefited us a few years ago. I've heard every story in the book, bottom line is we have no power, scabs everywhere, union is broken, so you are at the buyers mercy.
Actually 9/16 @ 8 AM, supply and demand is part of the market equation, as it is with most commodity products. And, the dollar/yen relationship does effect price, just as it does in sales transactions of other goods between the two countries. These are undeniable facts.
ReplyDeleteAs for the majors trying to drive down the market, I think you give them credit for being smarter and more capable than they really are.
I have some great advice for 8:00 AM: Stay Home. You sound so tortured.
ReplyDeleteTo 8:51--- really ?? That's all you can come up with?
ReplyDeleteTruth hurts doesn't it., it's great this forum where we can say what we want, every BB fisherman knows what 8Am says is true. Your a buyer who couldn't last one day on the back deck. Your our problem and we will be around long after your gone to Palm Springs with your cigar.
I am not 8:51, but what 8AM says is not logical. Why would we think that export sales of US fisheries products to foreign countries would be exempt from exchange rate fluctuations? And why would we think that fish products are exempt from the effects of supply and demand? The answer is that they are not. We just want them to be because it would just be great if they were. Furthermore, the majors are not smart enough to conspire to "drive down the market". And the big guy, Trident, is dumbing down by the day as the brains leave for greener pastures.
ReplyDeleteDollar yen does matter in every other price situation but Bristol bay?? Come on.. Two years ago when dollar yen was 85yen to dollar we got none of it yet when it goes the other way the buyers sure bring it up.. Supply and demand, yes it matters in every other business but in Bristol bay for years runs have been small yet we got none of it.. Boy you guys don't get it..you think we don't know what's up. Does it hurt when someone calls you on your /?!, scamming scum is what the buyers in Bristol bay are...keep commenting back please so we can keep the post on how the truth hurts going
ReplyDeleteTrident is losing talent through the scuppers. Their loss is the other "bigs" gain. The market will be stronger as these guys push to steal market from Trident.
ReplyDeleteWhat matters is the buyer , wholesaler, and the retailer are owned by the same corporation!Marubeni an american corporation sells to the japanese corporation then sells to there satellite corporation, always controlling the price.So yes they can drive the price down. Tradex reported on 9/1/14 that the Japanese buyer where buying fish aggressively ,sounds like the markets hot. As for the comment written on comment 9/18 @ 6:25 am, that person talked about the cigar smoking buyer from Palm Springs, this I believe is none other than "AKA" the "Stroker". Swore under oath in Alaska Supreme court that he liked to lie to his fishermen! liked to tell his fishermen how shitty there fish were, yeah that's not driving the price down? If you didn't like it go somewhere else! Well there is some where else to go now its Silver Bay, the other didn't do so good. If we as fishermen could get enough constituents to get involved with the BBRSDA and maybe start a co-op, just a little one. Self marketers.Its are tax dollars maybe we use some of ASMI money too? The HUMPTY DUMBTY Corporation has a big crack in its "ASS" from Silver Bay,we just have keep moving forward and together we can shatter their hold on Bristol Bay!! Like the Comment before please keep this going (Wesley)
ReplyDeleteOK 10:38, let's suppose you are correct and that Bristol Bay reds are uniquely exempt from the economic impacts of supply/demand and currency exchange rate fluctuations. What you must be contending then is that the Bristol Bay buyers are collectively and consistantly suppressing the fish price and/or manipulating the market for those fish (or is it all fish from Alaska). Frankly, I don't think they have the brains to pull it off.
ReplyDeleteWhen you call the buyers scamming scum, you must believe they are fixing the price. Think we have been there before. Is there any better proof now than there was several years back?
ReplyDeleteWe are finally getting there.. Yes they are manipulating the price. Within hours of each other they come out with the price.. Please will some government official step in and help us get these people to sit down to nagociations at the beginning of the season so we know what we are fishing for...right now we have to wait months for our money and even then it's a slap in the face 10cents bonus.lets say it out in the open now like we all say in closed doors. We get the bone, yes that's we all call it, So you buyers out there in the spring when you send out our money don't put price adjustment or bonus on the the check, have the ability to stand up like the men and women we are and call it a Bone because you really do treat us like dogs. Yes this is what we all think of you all, do you feel proud of yourselves knowing that though's who work for you hate you and can't stand the lies you tell, we know every game you play and puke when we hear it again and again. Wonderfull job you have done Peter Pan, North Pacific, Trident, Icicle, Ocean Beauty, AGS, you have really built up an industry to move it forward into the future, your fisherman hate you for ripping them off, you lie to them, steal from them, treat them like dogs. Great job. Now Silver Bay thank you for stepping in for now we can really get to see a company operate that the fisherman take pride in being involved with. The whole attitude over there is different. To you out there reading this keep it going, put in your thoughts. Buyers come on give it to us, all you do is put your foot in your mouths for we have heard your lies many times!!! I'm not scared but you are.....
ReplyDeleteIf you believe there was no price fixing then why did Norquest, pan pacific, and others pay up to get out of it.
ReplyDeleteWe all know there is price fixing, pay off the judge and you can win anything...try another one please.....
Fishermen fighting amongst ourselves, wow this is something new...NOT. Silverbay our savior...Not. Appreciated for moving into our market...Yes.
ReplyDeleteHowever it is not a foregone conclusion what their presence will mean for us long term. Certainly looks good, but aren't they sending their fish to China for reprocessing? Sure that is cheap and many others do the same but the product is of lower quality (than fillets processed in the Bay), period. Isn't high quality what we are trying to achieve? Why yes, it is.
Again, I'm really happy they are in the Bay, I believe our price has bumped up because of they're arrival.
As for adjusting for inflation. The dollar is in the crapper and has been for years. Folks at our level can't do anything about that. This summer has been my largest grossing season since 1996, I'll take it!
Fishermen strive to deliver quality fish, install expensive RSW systems, icing fish etc, bbrsda, asmi market the fish, all this for whom? Look at inflation! Our prices compare to the 90's, looking at inflation? No comparison!
ReplyDeleteBristol Bay fish companies control pricing period, look at them expanding at worst fishing seasons, buying canneries/processors while fishermen go home broke.
We need foreign processors in the bay, we need competition! Thank you Silver Bay for entering Bristol Bay.
SBS will need two more years to get to top performance in the Bay. They need more boats, need to start filleting fish and need a little canning to handle the #3 fish. Until they make those adjustments, they are at some disadvantage. But, what they have achieved so far is remarkable, In one year, they have built the biggest plant in the Bay and it probably gets better from here out. These guys think differently than the others. There is none of the canning mentality at SBS, and I would suggest that it is that very mentality, and the sloppiness/lethargy it leads to, that holds back innovation and ultimately value and price.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that,I also do not believe there is a grand conspiracy to fix prices. As an earlier post said, the processors don't pack the horsepower in their heads to make that happen.
Someone please name the cigar smoking buyer from Palm Springs aka "the stroker" it's ok don't be afraid their name will be in the court record, but it's a billion times easier for us young guys to dig it up if we have a name.
ReplyDeleteThe processors fix the price low, the fishermen want to fix the price higher. Questions?
ReplyDeleteWith the threat of Silver Bay fleet drain over, the majors can now lower the price paid.
If 30% of the fleet (or more) were to belong to an association, a legally enforceable, unilateral call for a pre-season State moderated price agreement would be accomplished.
The Ghost