The deal is not ALL of Alaskan fish would meet the MSC requirements. It's not a matter of the cost to do business with MSC. In the Alaska Constitution (which the fishermen are saying should be a good enough "label"), the stray rate threshold for hatchery fish is 3-5%. The stray rate for the hatchery fish of Prince William Sound is over 20%. ADF&G is one year into a three-year study right now and has that 20% stray rate data. PWS Aquaculture Corporation releases BILLIONS of smolt into the ocean....thus the record pink return this year, many of which will go unharvested (just go to the Sound and try and catch one silver on a rod and reel without catching a dozen old pinks). This is unsustainable. FYI - 40% our Copper River Reds are from a hatchery. How wild is that? We won't have Wild Alaska Salmon for long with hatcheries putting out so many fish that compete with wild salmon nutrients as well as genetically mixing with wild salmon; creating weak salmon.
I believe fish hatched and released to the wild of the pacific ocean to grow to be wild fish. They do not spend their life in a pen as do farm salmon, which is not wild, but still gets the MSC label.The Gulkana hatchery up the copper is an amazingly efficient and simple hatchery , the eggs are hatched and the smolt spend a year in crosswinds lake before going down the copper and swimming for 3 years and feeding in the pacific ocean . I guess if we want to talk about hatcheries , lets not forget the kitoi in Kodiak and the hidden falls in southeast. Haters will always be haters
The Prince William Sound fishery will not be certified by MSC, largely because they do not adequately manage the wild runs in light of massive hatchery production (~700 million pink salmon juveniles released/yr) and complaints by ADFG managers.
Walmart has supported MSC certified fisheries but they do not accept Global Trust certification, which was developed for the Alaska Seafood Marketing Institute, and which has "blessed" all Alaska salmon. Global Trust essentially looks only at policy, which is excellent in Alaska. MSC looks at policy and implementation. Be aware of increasing scientific evidence that pink salmon out compete other salmon species in North Pacific ecosystems. Do we really need hatchery pink salmon? Decide for yourself.
Gulkana Hatchery is more like 10% of the total red run on the copper, just one more way the copper river fisherman boost the red run on the Copper for all users.
wher are you going to catch your silvers? Whittier silvers are remote release from a Hatchery, Esther Island is also a Siver Hatchery, chances are good the only reason you catch any silvers on the sound is because of Hatcheries. Also I am not sure what the problem with straying is, all of the eggs for pwsac pink salmon are taken from the local streams near the hatchery.
This issue and the MSC could have been solved long ago. When you can't even figure out what wild means, maybe you need to go back to Marketing School too.
"We're all working together; that's the secret." Sam Walton
And Oxford University's definition of Wild?
Always leave home without it.
Not Propgated?
The University of Oxford is a collegiate research university located in Oxford, England. Although its exact date of foundation is unclear, there is evidence of teaching as far back as 1096,
It's not nice to fool mother nature, the MSC Board, or Sam Walton's expertise in Marketing.
Its just that the flavor will never match that of the early run copper river fish., Besides catching millions I day, the handling of the fish cannot compare with the one at a time caught copper river red
9/6 @ 1:28, are you really gonna try to claim that silvers in PWS are only there because of PWSAC? If so, then obviously, you haven't been around for very long. Yes, aquaculture is responsible for the silvers out in front at Whittier, and at the hatcheries front doors, but truly wild silvers have always been the Sound (so far).
In PWS both the wild and hatchery pinks had record returns. In nature with natural selection only strong survive to pass on their genes. so if wild fish can become hatchery fish can hatchery fish become wild? So every salmon stock in every spawning system in the world was created out of thin air? They got there by straying.
Excellent points made by Sept 10 @949am. @10:37 we are well aware of the wild silvers in the Sound , as I said in certain remote release sites, but sounds like catching 10 humps before a Silver sounds like Esther Hatchery
I have taken part in many MSC audits over the years at ground level, meaning in various processing plants and corporate offices. Please believe, when it comes to Alaskan seafood, this truly is a waste of time and money. It's nothing more than a marketing tool based on the same record keeping that was in place before MSC ever came along. It just adds another tedious layer of paperwork and expense. You pay these people to come to your plant and review your records. Anyone with a pen and computer access could show them whatever, they wouldn't know the difference anyway. It's ridiculous and anyone buying into it is a sucker.
So... we know that there are optimum stream carrying capacities and we manage escapement for those, but to hell with any valid scientific attempt to quantify near shore and ocean carrying capacities for maturing salmon?
Hatcheries were, and should be implemented to bolster, not to overshadow and potentially threaten wild salmon stocks.
And... using meds from fertilization to release does not create a wild fish. That is a hatchery fish, not bad, just not wild.
The deal is not ALL of Alaskan fish would meet the MSC requirements. It's not a matter of the cost to do business with MSC. In the Alaska Constitution (which the fishermen are saying should be a good enough "label"), the stray rate threshold for hatchery fish is 3-5%. The stray rate for the hatchery fish of Prince William Sound is over 20%. ADF&G is one year into a three-year study right now and has that 20% stray rate data. PWS Aquaculture Corporation releases BILLIONS of smolt into the ocean....thus the record pink return this year, many of which will go unharvested (just go to the Sound and try and catch one silver on a rod and reel without catching a dozen old pinks). This is unsustainable. FYI - 40% our Copper River Reds are from a hatchery. How wild is that? We won't have Wild Alaska Salmon for long with hatcheries putting out so many fish that compete with wild salmon nutrients as well as genetically mixing with wild salmon; creating weak salmon.
ReplyDeleteI believe fish hatched and released to the wild of the pacific ocean to grow to be wild fish. They do not spend their life in a pen as do farm salmon, which is not wild, but still gets the MSC label.The Gulkana hatchery up the copper is an amazingly efficient and simple hatchery , the eggs are hatched and the smolt spend a year in crosswinds lake before going down the copper and swimming for 3 years and feeding in the pacific ocean . I guess if we want to talk about hatcheries , lets not forget the kitoi in Kodiak and the hidden falls in southeast. Haters will always be haters
ReplyDeleteThe Prince William Sound fishery will not be certified by MSC, largely because they do not adequately manage the wild runs in light of massive hatchery production (~700 million pink salmon juveniles released/yr) and complaints by ADFG managers.
ReplyDeleteWalmart has supported MSC certified fisheries but they do not accept Global Trust certification, which was developed for the Alaska Seafood Marketing Institute, and which has "blessed" all Alaska salmon. Global Trust essentially looks only at policy, which is excellent in Alaska. MSC looks at policy and implementation. Be aware of increasing scientific evidence that pink salmon out compete other salmon species in North Pacific ecosystems. Do we really need hatchery pink salmon? Decide for yourself.
Gulkana Hatchery is more like 10% of the total red run on the copper, just one more way the copper river fisherman boost the red run on the Copper for all users.
ReplyDeletewher are you going to catch your silvers? Whittier silvers are remote release from a Hatchery, Esther Island is also a Siver Hatchery, chances are good the only reason you catch any silvers on the sound is because of Hatcheries.
ReplyDeleteAlso I am not sure what the problem with straying is, all of the eggs for pwsac pink salmon are taken from the local streams near the hatchery.
This issue and the MSC could have been solved long ago. When you can't even figure out what wild means, maybe you need to go back to Marketing School too.
ReplyDelete"We're all working together; that's the secret."
Sam Walton
And Oxford University's definition of Wild?
Always leave home without it.
Not Propgated?
The University of Oxford is a collegiate research university located in Oxford, England.
Although its exact date of foundation is unclear, there is evidence of teaching as far back as 1096,
It's not nice to fool mother nature, the MSC Board, or Sam Walton's expertise in Marketing.
A blind man is not required to see at his peril...
ReplyDeleteCapital isn't scarce; vision is.
Sam Walton
Bristol Bay.
ReplyDeleteStill Wild After All These Years!
The day is coming when the Bays' quality, price, and marketability will overshadow the Copper market.
ALL WILD, ALL NATURAL, ALL THE TIME!
No negative press/marketing against PWS/Copper, ever, just positive truthful statements supporting BB 100% wild fish, coming soon to a store near you.
Its just that the flavor will never match that of the early run copper river fish., Besides catching millions I day, the handling of the fish cannot compare with the one at a time caught copper river red
ReplyDelete9/6 @ 1:28, are you really gonna try to claim that silvers in PWS are only there because of PWSAC? If so, then obviously, you haven't been around for very long. Yes, aquaculture is responsible for the silvers out in front at Whittier, and at the hatcheries front doors, but truly wild silvers have always been the Sound (so far).
ReplyDeleteIn PWS both the wild and hatchery pinks had record returns. In nature with natural selection only strong survive to pass on their genes. so if wild fish can become hatchery fish can hatchery fish become wild? So every salmon stock in every spawning system in the world was created out of thin air? They got there by straying.
ReplyDeleteExcellent points made by Sept 10 @949am. @10:37 we are well aware of the wild silvers in the Sound , as I said in certain remote release sites, but sounds like catching 10 humps before a Silver sounds like Esther Hatchery
ReplyDeleteI have taken part in many MSC audits over the years at ground level, meaning in various processing plants and corporate offices. Please believe, when it comes to Alaskan seafood, this truly is a waste of time and money. It's nothing more than a marketing tool based on the same record keeping that was in place before MSC ever came along. It just adds another tedious layer of paperwork and expense. You pay these people to come to your plant and review your records. Anyone with a pen and computer access could show them whatever, they wouldn't know the difference anyway. It's ridiculous and anyone buying into it is a sucker.
ReplyDeleteSo... we know that there are optimum stream carrying capacities and we manage escapement for those, but to hell with any valid scientific attempt to quantify near shore and ocean carrying capacities for maturing salmon?
ReplyDeleteHatcheries were, and should be implemented to bolster, not to overshadow and potentially threaten wild salmon stocks.
And... using meds from fertilization to release does not create a wild fish. That is a hatchery fish, not bad, just not wild.
Every Federal Fish need's MSC, like Russian Pollock, coming to a Wal-Mart near you!
ReplyDeleteIt's not nice to fool mother nature.
"Independent Adjudicator issues final decision in Russia Sea of Okhotsk pollock fishery objection
Sep 16, 2013"
http://www.msc.org/newsroom/news/independent-adjudicator-issues-final-decision-in-russia-sea-of-okhotsk-pollock-fishery-objection
Russian corruption...a very long term sustainable plan indeed comrade.
ReplyDeleteMSC on the take.