Ugh, so southeast, biggest salmon producer in the state last year, gets represented by the operation that probably caught the least in the state last year. Just a note: Neither Heather or Kirk owns a permit. They fish with Heather's dad.
Maybe this is covered in the graduate class, but "Salmon 101" is deficient in a few areas. There are more than 5 species of Pacific salmon (masu, and steelhead/rainbow and cutthroat), and not all Alaskan salmon are wild as stated at the bottom of that page. It is more like 70-80% wild.
@ 2:06 ... I was referring to the amount of hatchery fish in the Alaska catch, which amounts to about 20-30% of catch in recent years. You might refer to them as wild-capture, but certainly not wild.
There's no differnce between a hatchery salmon vs. wild salmon. The hatchery fish originated from a native system, there is absolutely no DNA difference, the only difference is where they return to. I would refer to them (hatchery fish) as common property fish. A hatchery fish has the ability to spawn & reproduce if it makes it to a river system.
wild-capture: that's a new one...is that a fancy name for commercial fishing?
Steelhead/rainbow and cutthroat are trout you idiot, not salmon. And hatchery fish are absolutely wild fish. Eggs stripped from returning adults, incubated in native stream water, out migrated to estuary, mature in the open ocean feeding on natural sources. They are wild fish.
Here's a difference for you @ 3:02. They don't spawn naturally for starters. A hatchery worker decides which male's milt fertilizes which female's eggs. And often they use one male to fertilize 5 or 6 females' eggs. This dilutes the gene pool. Then there's the question of where the eggs come from. They are not always local, in fact in many cases they are picked from a distant run with completely different run timing than local runs. At one time, the Main Bay hatchery had three different sockeye runs returning to the hatchery, Early Eyak fish, mid season Coghill stock, and late season Eshamey fish. The hatchery had too much trouble with overlap so they ended the early and late runs and now produce only the mid-season Coghill reds.
Hatchery fish are notorious for being smaller sized than the wild fish they originated from. Whether this is from breeding practices or competition from the large masses of hatchery fish competing for feed is a mystery. It could also be from the fact that smaller fish slip through gillnet gear and survive to be the breeders pushing down the average size by genetics. All I know is Coghill dogs used to average 8 lbs, and now it's more like 6 to 7 lbs. with the hatchery fish. And in the Main Bay hatchery, small fish pile up in the AGZ that swim right through your net. You can run 100 of them in your net and catch 10. The rest go right through your web.
6:09 We have had some ups and downs in the average size of salmon in SE since I started observing in the 50's. Recently we have had a couple of years of exceptionally small coho, which are only about 20% hatchery in SE. On the other hand we had exceptionally large pinks and record returns in 2011 while we had small coho that same year. Since they out migrate at the same time this was kind of perplexing. Alaska has the strongest protections for wild salmon in the world. I nominated former Senator Richard Eliason to the Wild Salmon Hall of Fame for his work on that legislation, and his work prohibiting fin fish farming in Alaska. In Northern SE Alaska our fisherman's hatchery association has only been allowed to build one working hatchery since our inception in 1977. We keep proposing sites, presently one at Pelican, but ADF&G keeps turning us down. I wouldn't worry about our hatchery fish adversely affecting our wild stocks. I am more worried that our best in the world protections for wild salmon, which I support, is being interpreted in a way to unnecessarily restrict hatchery development.
First let Me say that I beleive hatchery fish are wild, as they spend the vast majority of thier lives livving in the Largest ocean in the world and not in a pen. I would also say it must be nice for those Prince william fisherman having over a million high quality reds coming back to Main bay and a3 million chums to add to a hatchery run of 30 million pinks. The Hatchery seems to work very well in Prince william sound
".....must be nice...." to have all those hatchery fish return in Prince William Sound.
Region by region, our state is off balanced. Western Alaska, where the salmon use to provide a good livelihood for our state's poorest people isn't panning out and hasn't for at least 30 years.
Predictions that next season will be better no longer works. People are waking up to the hogwash being fed to them on used paper plates.
The Main Bay Sockeye harvested in the cpf, last season, were the largest per lb. sockeye ever recorded, in pws. Some of the 5 yr olds were close to a 10-12 lb average. Nothing wrong with those fish!!! And yes, E. Prestegard is doing a great job in the SE area, we miss him in Cordova.
Hey, this is one blogger that's glad Wes removed that BS about hatchery fish being nursed with drugs, etc.
That was an example of the type of propaganda floating around Western Alaska about 2004 to stifle any attempts to enhance declining salmon stocks. Feed BS to the ignorant and illiterate and they'll believe it as if it came out of the Bible.
piping in anon? Your comments are typical even when you don't include the little doggies sayings. Are we being a little tender and far from the truth because we want to protect all those hatchery pinks on the "wild" market? I think they're a great cultivated commodity, but, wild, no. Don't get me wrong, I'm "wild" about salmon, and I won't slam hatchery fish in the marketplace, but this is not a blogsite that is in the public eye and as such I don't feel that we need to lie to ourselves.
Hatchery salmon are not wild, they are ocean ranched. They are far superior than farmed, but not as good as wild and natural.
Why are you so sensitive about this anyways? You're outfit is now selling farmed garbage. You call it "...taking the company to a new level..." I call it taking it to a new low.
The bible? When did you last understand that book?
Ugh, so southeast, biggest salmon producer in the state last year, gets represented by the operation that probably caught the least in the state last year. Just a note: Neither Heather or Kirk owns a permit. They fish with Heather's dad.
ReplyDeletePropaganda, otherwise known as ballyhoo about Alaska's Salmon is gushing out like red juice. Red, the color of blood.
ReplyDeleteReal Alaskans know that our salmon are not managed for sustainability as mandated by the Constitution.
Maybe this is covered in the graduate class, but "Salmon 101" is deficient in a few areas. There are more than 5 species of Pacific salmon (masu, and steelhead/rainbow and cutthroat), and not all Alaskan salmon are wild as stated at the bottom of that page. It is more like 70-80% wild.
ReplyDelete70-80% how in the world do you figure that, it's 100% wild. Alaska doesn't allow fish farms.
ReplyDelete@ 2:06 ... I was referring to the amount of hatchery fish in the Alaska catch, which amounts to about 20-30% of catch in recent years. You might refer to them as wild-capture, but certainly not wild.
ReplyDeleteThere's no differnce between a hatchery salmon vs. wild salmon. The hatchery fish originated from a native system, there is absolutely no DNA difference, the only difference is where they return to.
ReplyDeleteI would refer to them (hatchery fish) as common property fish.
A hatchery fish has the ability to spawn & reproduce if it makes it to a river system.
wild-capture: that's a new one...is that a fancy name for commercial fishing?
The only difference is where they return to? All I can say is WOW.
ReplyDeleteSteelhead/rainbow and cutthroat are trout you idiot, not salmon. And hatchery fish are absolutely wild fish. Eggs stripped from returning adults, incubated in native stream water, out migrated to estuary, mature in the open ocean feeding on natural sources. They are wild fish.
ReplyDeleteHere's a difference for you @ 3:02. They don't spawn naturally for starters. A hatchery worker decides which male's milt fertilizes which female's eggs. And often they use one male to fertilize 5 or 6 females' eggs. This dilutes the gene pool. Then there's the question of where the eggs come from. They are not always local, in fact in many cases they are picked from a distant run with completely different run timing than local runs. At one time, the Main Bay hatchery had three different sockeye runs returning to the hatchery, Early Eyak fish, mid season Coghill stock, and late season Eshamey fish. The hatchery had too much trouble with overlap so they ended the early and late runs and now produce only the mid-season Coghill reds.
ReplyDeleteHatchery fish are notorious for being smaller sized than the wild fish they originated from. Whether this is from breeding practices or competition from the large masses of hatchery fish competing for feed is a mystery. It could also be from the fact that smaller fish slip through gillnet gear and survive to be the breeders pushing down the average size by genetics. All I know is Coghill dogs used to average 8 lbs, and now it's more like 6 to 7 lbs. with the hatchery fish. And in the Main Bay hatchery, small fish pile up in the AGZ that swim right through your net. You can run 100 of them in your net and catch 10. The rest go right through your web.
It's still a wild fish.
ReplyDeleteour chums were huge last year, Prestegard rocks!
6:09 We have had some ups and downs in the average size of salmon in SE since I started observing in the 50's. Recently we have had a couple of years of exceptionally small coho, which are only about 20% hatchery in SE. On the other hand we had exceptionally large pinks and record returns in 2011 while we had small coho that same year. Since they out migrate at the same time this was kind of perplexing.
ReplyDeleteAlaska has the strongest protections for wild salmon in the world. I nominated former Senator Richard Eliason to the Wild Salmon Hall of Fame for his work on that legislation, and his work prohibiting fin fish farming in Alaska. In Northern SE Alaska our fisherman's hatchery association has only been allowed to build one working hatchery since our inception in 1977. We keep proposing sites, presently one at Pelican, but ADF&G keeps turning us down.
I wouldn't worry about our hatchery fish adversely affecting our wild stocks. I am more worried that our best in the world protections for wild salmon, which I support, is being interpreted in a way to unnecessarily restrict hatchery development.
EWJ
You tell em Salty! Glad you're on the board.
ReplyDeleteIs ADF&G requiring you in SE to set up a cooperative agreement through a native corporation?
ReplyDeleteFirst let Me say that I beleive hatchery fish are wild, as they spend the vast majority of thier lives livving in the Largest ocean in the world and not in a pen.
ReplyDeleteI would also say it must be nice for those Prince william fisherman having over a million high quality reds coming back to Main bay and a3 million chums to add to a hatchery run of 30 million pinks. The Hatchery seems to work very well in Prince william sound
".....must be nice...." to have all those hatchery fish return in Prince William Sound.
ReplyDeleteRegion by region, our state is off balanced. Western Alaska, where the salmon use to provide a good livelihood for our state's poorest people isn't panning out and hasn't for at least 30 years.
Predictions that next season will be better no longer works. People are waking up to the hogwash being fed to them on used paper plates.
Of course it's off balance, by design.
ReplyDeleteAnd that panhandle's getting a little hot.
The Main Bay Sockeye harvested in the cpf, last season, were the largest per lb. sockeye ever recorded, in pws. Some of the 5 yr olds were close to a 10-12 lb average. Nothing wrong with those fish!!! And yes, E. Prestegard is doing a great job in the SE area, we miss him in Cordova.
ReplyDeleteSo the Salmon Management in Alaska is "off balance, by design."
ReplyDeleteMen who play God is the Devil in disguise - they don't care what they destroy as long as they stay in control.
That's heavy.
I think PWS aquaculture has basically destroyed Lower cook inlet.
ReplyDeleteAfter viewing that panoramic, I have to say that maybe that $1M proposed cut to their budget isn't such a bad idea.
ReplyDeleteCut their budget and give the money to private enterprises who will do the jobs right.
ReplyDeleteCoghill dogs naturally were 10 lb. average you johnny-come-lately.
ReplyDelete" I've been fishing here for 12 years now, let me tell you how it used to be...". Tinhorn.
Hey deckdog!
ReplyDeleteWhy'd you remove my truth telling of the drugs that are given to all those "wild" hatchery salmon from the day they're incubated?
Wild my ass.
I thought you appreciated truth in reporting.
Hey, this is one blogger that's glad Wes removed that BS about hatchery fish being nursed with drugs, etc.
ReplyDeleteThat was an example of the type of propaganda floating around Western Alaska about 2004 to stifle any attempts to enhance declining salmon stocks. Feed BS to the ignorant and illiterate and they'll believe it as if it came out of the Bible.
Ah... boobt,
ReplyDeletepiping in anon? Your comments are typical even when you don't include the little doggies sayings. Are we being a little tender and far from the truth because we want to protect all those hatchery pinks on the "wild" market? I think they're a great cultivated commodity, but, wild, no. Don't get me wrong, I'm "wild" about salmon, and I won't slam hatchery fish in the marketplace, but this is not a blogsite that is in the public eye and as such I don't feel that we need to lie to ourselves.
Hatchery salmon are not wild, they are ocean ranched. They are far superior than farmed, but not as good as wild and natural.
Why are you so sensitive about this anyways? You're outfit is now selling farmed garbage. You call it "...taking the company to a new level..." I call it taking it to a new low.
The bible? When did you last understand that book?
Correction: -your-
ReplyDeleteWouldn't want to be guilty of being an illiterate propogandizer.
Wild
ReplyDeleteYukon River
Wild
Kuskokwim River
Wild
Unalakleet River
Wild
Fish River
Wild
Pilgrim River
King Salmon
Forget About
Western Alaska
They Have The
Pollock Fishery
CDQ Program
Wild