The Department of Fish and Game today announced a preliminary quota of 11,055 tons for the 2013 Sitka Sound sac roe herring fishery.
That's a big comedown from the 2012 quota of 28,829 tons. Seiners failed to catch anywhere near that amount, ending the season with 13,534 tons.
The humble should come in the form of the Department researcher who proclaimed at the Southeast Board of Fisheries with certainty that 29K tons would be available for harvest. When Board member Dr. Brown warned this researcher that the model used was faulty and lead to overestimates of harvest potential, the department researcher ignored his warning.
ReplyDeleteGuess what - Dr. Brown was correct and Dr. Department was not. The 13K tons is much closer to the forecast Dr. Brown indicated would be more appropriate.
Maybe next time the Department will take such advice more seriously when flaws in its modeling are pointed out by people who understand the uses and limitations of modeling.
.... and 24% of the forecast is age 8 and up and no evidence of a large recruit class.This is still far too large a quota. Expect further reductions when they evaluate age structure this winter or expect the continued decline of this resource.
ReplyDeleteLess is more... But can you really believe that anyone knows anything when it comes to ocean survival?
ReplyDeleteThis should not come as a surprise. The Dept. has been drawing these stocks down for some time and we are on the verge of eliminating the Sitka herring just as we have other stocks in Alaska, ie, SEAK, PWS, and Cook inlet. The greed of the herring fishermen and the ignorance and apathy of the Dept. have no limits. Board member Brown has been correct in his warnings to the Dept. of the consequences of over harvest for several years.
ReplyDeleteAre you suggesting that the brilliant herring fishermen would deplete a public resource for very little monetary gain? They have allready proven they will fish for nothing,giving no thought to the future of the resource.Low price-catch more thats the answer.
ReplyDeleteA blind man with a glass eye in his ass could have seen this coming. Poor markets should have left the fish in the water for the past two years, but instead greed won out only to begin the demise of a few insiders and a great resource that could feed more than wallets and Japan.
ReplyDeleteLove that comment!
ReplyDeleteWill this humble Troy or Zuanich?
ReplyDeletesoutheast winter bait harvest was set at 30 thousand ton in the seventies. port houghton, camden, anita bay, tebenkof, bocas de finas, meares passage, el capitan pass had herring for harvest. what happened? probably adf&g blundered. processors and fishermen too. another thing, the nsraa cost recovery bids drop to half a penny, the herring price tumbles while the harvest triples in size...um..a big player is born...a numbers man...how could this be?
ReplyDeleteBrown is the smartest guy in the room. At least, that's what he says.
ReplyDeleteThey just spawned somewhere else instead.
ReplyDeletethen you should take the fleet out of sitka sound and go somewhere else!the historical average of 5000 tons was what this fisherie could handle and still be a viable fisherie.maybe a little more,but110000 tons is just too much not only for the health of the resource but you are also glutting your own markets!think of what you might be getting a ton this year if you had just decided to leave the fish in the water the last two years?
ReplyDelete"spawned somewhere else" Where do you come up with such nonsense. The plain truth is that there are just not as many herring as there should be. Everything makes a living off this forage fish. And instead of harvesting them at the expense of the eco system and getting less per ton than an average chinook would bring, we should let them attempt to re-colonize. Maybe, then some of our wildlife and other fish stocks might come back, maybe.. But the Dept gets pressure from special interest groups, political pressure from legislators and the governor, and the Fish Board members are so worried about doing something for the resource that makes them unpopular and maybe not re-appointable, that they act to appease rather than to protect the resource. Greed always trumps conservation. Talk about a bad model. The process needs overhaul.
ReplyDeleteDr. Brown, Sitka Residents, everyone with common sense have testified against this travesty. Nothing has worked to stop the big money idiots.
ReplyDeleteHerring need a base value like one thousand dollars a ton. Which would represent their importance to all users and require less for harvest if base value is met. AND if buyers cannot pay it, the fishery should remain closed. Shut it down NOW and rebuild.
ReplyDeleteMy Dad was born in 1921, he trolled with his father as a kid in SE then got his own boat. He says there was herring everywhere, all summer
ReplyDeletelong in the old days.
Today Kings and Cohos are smaller,
Kings have become bottom feeders.
Instead of producing more salmon via hatcheries maybe we should try and rebuild the herring runs all over
the state.
My Dad was born too, he helped wipe the herring off the map.
ReplyDeleteWhat's the big deal, at $500.00 a ton for King Salmon.
Like $2500.00 a ton for herring, it always just depends on when you were spawned, and how much it cost.
It appears that this blog has a lot of people commenting that have an opinion on herring without having ever studied herring, fished herring, or spent thousands of hours looking at herring abundance visually or on the color machine.
ReplyDeleteSince I have done all of the above, as my father did before me, a lot of these posts lack credibility.
Should we be vigilant in conserving herring, absolutely. Should we make adjustments in real time when our best models don't seem to be accurate? Absolutely, as ADF&G did in Sitka last year.
what they did last year was out of desperation not anything else i think both you and your father are wrong.plain and simple it's just common sence!your color machine just like the adfg's new models are only as good as the people observing them either through greedy eye balls or scientivic ones it really don't matter does it?greeds winning herrings loseing!
ReplyDeletetalk of conserving herring by a herring fisherman is total bs. try not taking roe herring when they are worth less than bait and maybe you will have a claim to conserving herring. this whole fishery stinks, a handful of idiots selling a resource with no price posted, taking anything they can get. now the market is screwed, the resource is screwed and everyone and everything reliant on herring is screwed. sys
ReplyDeletethe only thing not taken into account in previous posts is another user group, the ever increasing humpback whale population we are sharing our resources with. sure, biologists can study herring populations, but if they don't account for the amount taken by large groups of whales feeding off the coast of SE AK they will mistake the potential harvest.
ReplyDeleteA pretty typical attitude by the guy that fishes herring and his daddy did as well.Buying a permit and fishing herring makes you smarter than everyone else,take off the blinders and quit destroying a public resource by fifty some odd permit holders who for the most part could care less about the resource,just attend one of the meetings in sitka when these coop proposals come up to manage the fishery and take some of the quota off the table,these ideas never get to first base because of greed,greed,greed.
ReplyDeleteOh yeah, the Humpback whale argument. That is what is causing the elimination of our herring stocks. I almost forgot. The fact is that lots of critters make a living of the pacific herring. Marine mammals, birds and other fish, like halibut and Chinook. This is when they are there, which is slowing not being the case. To anyone with an ordinary greed gland, it is clear that it is the very few seiners who are drawing down the population. And, all with the blessing of the ADF&G which only cares about appeasing the special interests. Soon the herring will hit a tipping point and go the way of so many other species the Dept. has managed to over fish until they were gone. And sometimes, forever.
ReplyDelete"Are you suggesting that the brilliant herring fishermen would deplete a public resource for very little monetary gain? They have all ready proven they will fish for nothing,giving no thought to the future of the resource.Low price-catch more that's the answer."
ReplyDeleteHey! there is always Togiak, the last frontier.
Really, this isn't any big deal. Sitka is about big seiners crashing into one another only. Does any one really care about the resource? no. It's a relic that lives because it's in SE Alaska. Too many personalities involved. If real scientists ran ADF&G, deviod of politics, there would be no theater.
ReplyDeleteFools afloat, big boys with expensive toys. Size 48 jacket and 2 hat. Be gone soon. By way of the dodo. But no wait there is salmon, gotta have that 200,000lb. capacity seiner with synthetic net to scoop the whole shoreline, pin em in the net with that 600 hp skiff and catch em all. yep catch the dominant stock builder salmon that used to escape the guantlet that's how to survive nowadays.
ReplyDeleteI remember the years when the booms came down to signify a strike,Chests puffed out,everyone talked big,,,Of course when the fish showed up the booms came up,everyone went fishing with no price on the ticket,kill,kill,kill,I have more testosterone than the other guy,boats ramming,sinking skiffs....makes a lot of sense,this is the mentality of the majority of the fleet.
ReplyDeleteI have never read so many blogs on any fishing subject that were more consistently pro conservation. where are the high liners from Sitka and why have they not weighed in? If the comments are representative of what most believe, why then do we have this fishery? Surely the few permit holders should not hold sway over the mass who know that we are hurting the resource, the eco system and all that depend on pacific herring by allowing this harvest. What's it going to take?
ReplyDeletewhat? sitka posting with no mention of Jamie?!
ReplyDeleteNo Jamie or Chip T or any of the regular suspects. Wonder why? Possibly because all of their earlier arguments that the Dept. is doing such a good job and that the resource is so healthy can no longer be made. What do you suppose is happening to the value of those permits right about now? Oh well, they will always have Togiak until it too takes a dive which will eventually occur.
ReplyDeleteNow Jamie's been in love before
ReplyDeleteAnd she knows what love is for
It should mean, a little, a little more
Than one-night stands
She wants to send him a letter
Just to try to make herself feel better
Oh, oh, oh, Jamie's cryin'
Oh, oh, oh, Jamie's cryin'
Oh, oh, oh, Jamie's cryin'
Where's football head when you need him?
ReplyDeletehttps://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2011/05/23/2011-12650/fishing-capacity-reduction-program-for-the-southeast-alaska-purse-seine-salmon-fishery
Depleted herring stocks? The sitka sound biomass has been at its highest levels in the last decade since the reduction plant days of the 30's. The old days of lots of kings and coho? You mean the 60' and 70's when the SEAK herring stocks were at dismal levels? Most of the posts above have the size 2 hat, along with Brown and Johnstone. Just on a personal crusade with no real evidence to show. You want to talk about forage fish? Herring are a very small part of feed fish biomass. Capelin,Eulachon , and various needlefish are the bulk. Ocean survival of all species varies due to natural cycles, that cannot be controlled by man.
ReplyDeleteAh, it is good see someone with the confidence to take the other side even if it seems to make a personal attack on all of those other posters and now adds Johnstone and Brown. That often occurs when there is no scientific basis for ones argument. When you don't have the facts, just attack someone. And if that does not work argue about unknown ocean events that we can not control. It is the american way to NOT take responsibility. The mantra should be "it's not my fault" Is there a herring permit holder that will ever acknowledge that over harvest may be the culprit? I bet there might be, but that person is afraid to take that position for numbers of reasons. Don't know about the other guy, but Dr. Brown seemed to hit it on the head when he pointed out the flaws in the Depts' model which seem to be borne out with the stocks falling off the cliff. My question to you: In your mind do you think that there is any possibility that we are over harvesting the pacific herring in Alaska, and do you think that the revenue received is worth the risk? Finally, please tell me where all the very robust herring stocks that were once found in Calif. through BC, many places in SEAK, PWS, Cook Inlet and Kodiak, have gone. Just another unknown ocean event you say? Please!
ReplyDeleteThe truth be known ,is that when the herring fleet is in town, these guys lose their stools at the P bar. That's why they're so adamant about getting rid of them.
ReplyDeleteLosing your stool happens more often when you are full of it. This only confirms, however, what many think. How embarrassing to lose ones stool at the P bar.
ReplyDelete74,000 ton biomass in sitka is hardly cause for hysterics. Still well above historical biomass for this area. above mentions other herring stocks, i am not familiar with cal-BC, but Kodiak is in no way depleted. Lets look at PWS in 1993 there was a huge biomass of fish that did not make market demands and there was no harvest, then only 2 average harvests in the late 90's so how are you to make the case that overharvesting caused the decrease. No harvest on a 100,000 ton biomass left to spawn and still the stock declined. At least I am honest in stating that a lot of things happen out in the ocean that I cannot control or fully understand.
ReplyDeleteNo facts just attack someone, Looks like thats the majority of the comments from the conservationists-no facts just attacks.
ReplyDeletefact is the herring fleet isn't man enough to admit the herring are worth more to all users than low profit, Japan, and the herring 51 who tried to cut out crew in a failed equal split caper. this fleet has killed more herring than god. there how is that for an attack, it has some facts.
ReplyDeleteWill all figure out how competent ADFG is when the fish show up.
ReplyDelete75,000 tons is a healthy biomass. $20 millon spread between tenders, fisherman,crew, city of sitka, processors, cannery workers freight companies, pilots ect. With a healthy biomass thats worth the economic boost.
ReplyDeletetwenty million dollars spread among mostly transients is NOT worth it. MOST of that money, if it is that much, will leave town, the state distributed thinly and no huge benefit ever came of it. everyone knows the price settled with crew and the state is not really the full price paid much later to the skippers who don't want to talk about it. try again.
ReplyDeleteIt makes no difference why the PWS stocks declined, whether it was Exxon Valdez, ocean events, or over harvest. Fact is they are no longer present as they once were. We do know that for several years they were harvested at prodigious rates. Who is expert enough to say it was not over harvest that has caused their decline. Togiak used to have very large stocks and today there is no comparison. Just a matter of time. And the $20,000,000 from herring in Sitka, come on. With a quota of just over 10K tons and probably at around $175 per ton, that results in an x- vessel catch of just over $1,750,000. Added value comes no where near your 20M. maybe 5 or 6 million, perhaps slightly more. Is that worth taking such a valuable fish out of the eco system? And for what? to feed Asians the roe and do what to the rest of the animal, nothing to speak of. Of course you will argue that we are finding markets for the flesh, but we all know this is very problematic. And in the end it benefits Alaska and the United States how? I am not making personal attacks, just arguing the facts. The Sitka herring fishery is very likely on its way out some day sooner than you might think. if i had a permit, I too would be worried. but personal attacks get you nowhere and can be counter productive
ReplyDeleteThe value of the fishery is calculated on the price of herring at market. Which was $1450 per ton at 10% roe, most sitka roe averaged 11.5 or better( $1670 per ton) 13000 tons last year =$21,700,000. That includes tendering, freezing, shipping, processors, fisherman ect. Thats the true value of the fish when it leaves AK. Herring has more value than just to the seiners. they only recieve about 35% of the value.
ReplyDeleteAnd a King Salmon, is worth $10,000.00 a Ton to the Fisherman.
ReplyDeleteYour math class is upside down, as usual.
Apples and Oranges.
ReplyDelete1300 tons of troll fish makes ex-vessel value 13 millon. since there is no freezing just shipping and processor profit it puts fish in seattle at $8 lb. about 20 millon total value. So why should a equal value fishery to the troll fishery be flushed without any evidence it will increase King stocks? Besides any real troller will tell you its rare to find herring in a kings stomach, mostly needlefish and capelin.
ReplyDeleteTo the 5:40 post: You said that the seiners only got 35% of the true value. Well, they got in the area of $200. per ton and if that is 35% of the true value, then the total value is around $600 to $700. per ton depending on roe percentage. That is nowhere near the $1450 or $1670 per ton you claim. You might want to check out your math. The real value added component comes in Asia where diners pay unbelievable prices for the dish. But that means squat to Alaska. come on now. Be reasonable. Don't you really believe that it is not worth it? Don't inflate the numbers to justify the fishery. Be real!
ReplyDeleteNo inflation, last retro was to 500 a ton plus points so most seiners are at $600 or so. $200 for tenders $500 for freezing and the remainder is processor freight and profits. Not that hard to understand. But it obvious you are not interested in any truth.
ReplyDelete$500.00 or $600.00 per ton? X vessel? For 2012? In your dreams. Keep it real.
ReplyDeleteto Anon @ 6:59 Im not dreaming, have the checks to prove it and rumor is silver bay could go up to $700. Go ahead and make some calls to verify it, I dare you. But of course you wont, your the one in dream world.
ReplyDeleteCare to give some phone numbers out? Anyone calling for herring prices out of the blue will probably not get any results, so come up with someone to call. Cause I don't believe you. You are talking big so come on. Rumors, dares, dreams ok prove it photo the checks.
ReplyDeleteEvery bit of research i have done suggests that the Ex vessel price paid for 10% herring in sitka last spring was in the area of $150 to $200 per ton. There have been years when the price was much higher, but not recently and certainly not in 2012. I have called several friends who keep up with this and they anticipate about the same for 2013. I know Jamie and Chip and do not believe they are the posters who are claiming these prices. While they may not believe the need to curtail the fishery, they are honest individuals who would not misrepresent facts. So, who are you who claims such unreal prices? Prove it to all of us. If you do not then don't bother us anymore with your dreams. Give us a web site, or a number of a buyer who can confirm your claims. Anything reliable to back up your numbers.
ReplyDeleteMost likely buyers will not talk to an anonymous caller, but the truth will come out when they have to report to the state what they paid fisherman for ex-vessel value.
ReplyDeleteI assure you the prices are not unreal. advance 150-200 retro early summer to a flat 500. Just read the COAR report when it comes out. I will leave you to your propaganda bubble.
I'm a permit holder in Sitka, I've recieved $500 so far. 9:20 has the right information.
ReplyDeleteHerring crashing, chinook crashing. SE is too beautiful to be destroyed by a handful of fishermen.
ReplyDeleteYou must live in Denver, did you read that in a magazine?
ReplyDeleteYou must be god, all knowing seiner.
ReplyDeleteStill no evidence of price speaks volumes. I spoke to a seiner who said he felt lucky to get $205 and that he will get no more. He is seriously considering selling out and getting into a more reliable fishery like BB or area M. Sitka herring fishermen listen up: Your days are truly numbered. Get smart and police yourselves or you will lose it all. 5,000 tons is more than enough and the lower harvest will result in greater demand. Talk with the managers and show some restraint. It will serve you better in the end.
ReplyDelete$205 a ton, Your talking about 2011. After the tsunami the price fell to 205. 2007-10 and 2012 its been $500. chinook have other problems not related to herring, its a statewide issue. All systems have seen less kings. Most likely bycatch related, and survival at some stage of the cycle.
ReplyDeleteOne only has to have eyes and a very limited sense 0f observation to know with absolute certantiey we are going to loose our herring in sitka sound if the fish aren'tallowed to propagate at least every other year. They are in decline and have been since seining began.You will be runing allot for so little if you do not relent.The writing is on the wall open your eyes.
ReplyDelete