Among Alaska's salmon producing regions, Norton Sound is small potatoes. But local fishermen scored big this season.
The salmon harvest was worth nearly $1.27 million off the boat. That's not only a new record for the second season in a row, it's more than 200 percent above the recent 10-year average of $420,720.
A strong chum run highlighted the action in Norton Sound.
Lots more details here.
They are not chum salmon, they are TIGER salmon. Really guys, chum, dog, even keta, not good marketing names. Tiger, the new "king".
ReplyDeleteWhere you at Tim???
ReplyDeleteThis doesn't compensate for the dreaded Chinook salmon failures experienced since 1998. Coho was big this year. A lot of effort saturated by a slug of hungry fishermen made a piece of the pie smaller.
ReplyDeleteThe total escapement for chum was 120,000, nearly half of that could have been harvest by fishermen, but
due to conservation concerns area fishermen could not target chums until the main run migrated up river.
60,000 chum x 60 cents x 6 lbs avg could have really improved the bottom line for Norton Sound, Unalakleet and Shaktoolik.
How about setting up a mesh requirement that makes them fine enough that most of the kings will break through but the dogs will eventually be stopped? How about a #6 or #7?
ReplyDeleteThis was a "good" year and I have no doubt Tim/Eric will soon chime in with something to bitch about. My only gripe is that of "shifting baselines", to steal a term from the enviros. Sure...if you compare this year's harvest against the recent 10-year average, this was a great year! However, those last 10 years sucked ass...so you're missing the real historical perspective. You need to go back at least 20 years to see what the productivity in Norton Sound should really be like.
ReplyDeleteQuit shittin in your river and roe stripping then.
ReplyDeleteThe Norton Sound salmon fishery is heavily subsidized by the CDQ program. The intent of the CDQ program was to bring fisheries related economic development to Alaska's poverty stricken Western Alaska coast. Instead the Peoples Monies has brought a controlled monopoly with it's fishermen heavily in debt to the company. No wonder they paid high prices for a poor quality salmon - the guys have to make their boat and gear payments once in awhile!
ReplyDeleteBesides that, this fishery is intercepting salmon heading toward the depleted stocks of the Nome area rivers and those northwest of Nome such as Brevig Mission and Teller. This interception is probably worst than Area M has ever been. A handful of men giving the shaft to their own people.
In the Norton Sound mail boxes this week is the Kawerak, Inc. newletter for Fall 2011 and an article titled "Low Fish Runs in the Rivers near the Nome Area" by Loretta Bullard, President.
ReplyDeleteWhat Loretta fails to point out is that these "Low Fish Runs...." have been the status quo for at least 20 years. Kawerak has been right in the middle of this salmon crisis, spending hundreds of thousands of Salmon Monies dollars. Kawaraks involvement hasn't seem to help the salmon culture and tradition survive the politics of the Bering Sea Pollock Fishery. As Nome Politicians are know to say, "Who is in Bed with Who?"!!!!!
The average Norton Sound resident has to take a class in Statistics in order to make sense of Jim Menard's 2011 Salmon Report. All those numbers, averages, and percentages are like a foreign language to the thousands of poor people who's cultural and traditional use of the salmon is at risk of becoming extinct. Less and less salmon have been adorning the fish racks up and down the Norton Sound coast for 25 years. Dry fish is being sold at $10 a piece or $40 a quart bag for smoked King Salmon. But, according to Menard's report, records are being broken.
ReplyDeleteOf course he has to make those salmon reports all nice and rosy. The CDQ program subsidizes F&G's management programs - mainly the fish counting weirs up and down the coast. Catering to the pollock fishery - less salmon for them to catch as the highly publishized Salmon ByCatch Waste.
For the blogger making reference to the real historical Norton Sound salmon numbers, "...the productivity in Norton Sound...." will never achieve historical numbers as long as the fish politics continue as they have for the past 20 years.
ReplyDeleteLooking at the nice little chart of "salmon returns" provided by Loretta Bullard, President of Kawerak, Inc. in her Fall 2011 issue, the escapement goal numbers are pretty lopsided between Southern and Northern Norton Sound. It appears that salmon politics is shutting out the Northern Norton Sound. A handful of men shafting their own people.
Gas engines, plastic nets, aluminum boats, four wheelers, what other parts of customary and traditional means and methods am I missing?
ReplyDeleteCustomary and traditional excuses and arguments flew out the hut when you started to accept and use the modernized equipment.
Join the modern world and accept it or get rid of ALL of that junk.
Wow Tim, busy morning. Is that three, or four, consecutive posts. And I love reading what you write about the poor, ignorant native subsistence people who can't understand all the mumbly jumbly sciency talk. Where are you from Tim, certainly not from around here. Go back where you came from carpetbagger.
ReplyDeleteNo,carpetbags are temporarily sold out statewide. Kawerak bought bushels them, bashing Area M to deflect attention from trawl depredation at it's doorstep.Queen LASH & King RASH will shuck & jive until they sleep in retirement on mattresses stuffed with antipoverty millions. CDQ's bought the rest, minting millionaires in Seattle,Japan,Norway,&a corporate nonprofit office near you.There are no longer any robust natural King or Chum runs in the Bering Sea or Gulf.
ReplyDeleteHatcheries, and Bristol Bay skew the statistics and hide the vast ecological devastation to once viable ecosystems.
I'm from around here and I think he is doing a great job of standing up to you hypocrites who are willing to sell us all out for an embarassingly small amount of dirty money.
ReplyDeleteKeep up the good work Tim.
A lot of people support you who are too scared to use their own names because of what the Norton Sound bullies do to anybody who speaks up about their abuse of the CDQ program $millions.
The commenters on this blog remind me of an exchange from a Three Stooges short where Moe makes Curly feel guilty when he complains about his meager portion of the food the boys are sharing. Moe says, "We each took half a slice of ham and half an egg apiece, and gave you a whole bone and a whole egg shell, and you're squawkin'!!"
ReplyDelete2011 was a great salmon season if you forget that in 1978, 33 years ago, Norton Sound salmon fishermen made $3,148,240 in 2011 inflation adjusted dollars or 2 1/2 times what they made in 2011 even with NSEDC paying 56% more in 2011 than the average statewide coho price.
It also helps if your short attention span allows you to forget that in 2009, Norton Sound salmon fishermen made only $146,299 total in 2011 inflation adjusted dollars and in 2002 all the salmon fishermen in Norton Sound combined made only $3,698 adjusted for inflation.
An OK harvest once every few decades in a fishery heavily subsidized by CDQ program revenues is hardly cause for celebration unless you're a stooge.
The average permit holder in 2011 grossed $10,323 for the season. From that he paid for equipment, nets, gas, oil and crewmember wages. That's not very much in western Alaska where operating expenses and living costs are rising out of control.
I hate to throw a wet blanket on the party but even though the 2011 Norton Sound salmon season was a little better than a poke in the eyes from Moe, it was nothing to get excited about when you crunch the numbers.
The bottom line is that it is hard to make a living as a commercial salmon fishermen off of depleted salmon runs and the Norton Sound runs have been depleted for a very long time.
Are they increasing? Who knows; there are insufficient scientific data available for predicting future returns.
Is anything meaningful being done to increase the runs? Not unless you think counting fish harder will makes more of them come back.
If Tim waz funded for his fly by night hatchery from NSEDC, he'd be singing a totally different song. Tim is out for Tim himself.
ReplyDeleteI think I saw Tim getting his picture taken, beer in hand, SeaGal gigglin'. That dude gets around. Go Tim!
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of hatcheries. ADF&G operated a hatchery on the Noatak River north of Kotzebue at Sikusuilaq Springs that really boosted their chum salmon returns.
ReplyDeleteMaybe that's the reason Kotzebue commercial fishermen caught about the same number of chum salmon during 2010 and 2011 as Norton Sound commercial fishermen caught altogether in the 20 years during 1992-2011.
Arguing about whether the glass is half full or half empty misses the point. Norton Sound commercial salmon fishermen aren't making any money particularly when you compare it to what the CDQ program administrators pay themselves.
During 2010, the latest year for which numbers are available, NSEDC spent four times as much on its administration as Norton Sound commercial salmon fishermen grossed for their catch. That seems a bit lopsided to me but I've never understood why a program intended to create fisheries related economic development in impoverished rural Alaska villages got redirected to supporting faux executive high roller lifestyles in Anchorage.
Even the NSEDC board members do a lot better than Norton Sound commercial fishermen. They took home three times what the average salmon fisherman grossed just for sitting in meetings and trying to stay awake. $600 a day for attending a meeting that may last only a few hours is a lot easier than catching and delivering 882 pounds of chum salmon and that's before deducting expenses.
Okay then. Dismantle the CDQ programs.
ReplyDeleteWhy not just make it effective and accountable?
ReplyDeleteThe idea behind it was good. People were living on the shores of the Bering Sea in poverty while billions of dollars are being plundered by the multi-national corporations right in front of them.
The CDQ program was supposed to give them a piece of the action. Problem is, the multi-nationals figured out a way to take it back by corrupting a few key individuals from the villages leaving the people in the communities along the Bering Sea shore still living in poverty.
It wouldn't be all that hard to fix it.
Tim,
ReplyDeleteLike the guy said, go back where you came from! Buy a one-way ticket you bitter old man! Insult to injury to suggest dumping the honey bucket has created the problems with Chinook and chum salmon returns.
The fact is the cdq's have worked for the villages. The moron suggests villages have been bought off, can't be farther from the truth. The vision of the "true leaders" such as the late Harold Sparcks had a vision on ways to improve the life for people in the Bush, Tim will bitch and moan because the money doesn't flow directly into his pocket.
Another fact. Nome Fishermen's Association? Who? Him and his dumbass native wife. Come Nomites step up to the plate and call this guy. A spade is a spade and Tim is full of shit.
okay then. fire Larry Cotter and the likes of him and then all your problems will magically go away...
ReplyDeleteIt pains me to say this but Larry Cotter is probably the best of the CDQ program executives.
ReplyDeleteIf you compare ex-vessel fishery values in salmon from around the State with inflation adjusted values from back in the 1980's and early 1990's, it doesn't look that great anywhere yet, Norton Sound is hardly unique there.
ReplyDeleteIts good to see some decent catches in Norton Sound, and to have guys getting the opportunity to get their nets wet and make a few bucks.
Its amazing to see the posters flock in to discount and explain away decent runs in western AK. Its almost like they would rather have things continue to suck. Would the torrent of disaster spending by the feds, state, etc. trickle off if runs stay good? Is that what people are really afraid of?
Would you think it was a decent run if you grossed $10,000 for the season?
ReplyDeleteHow about if your subsistence fishing was closed because the run failed to materialize.
The decent runs Wes is writing about only ocurred in some of the Norton Sound rivers. Norton Sound is a big place.
I don't know anybody who has gotten anything from the "torrent of disaster spending by the feds, state, etc." so no, that's not the reason.
It's because Norton Sound salmon runs have been depleted for 30 years and nobody knows why and nobody is doing anything about it except counting fish.
It's hard to nail down an antipoverty program in the bush that delivers at ground level. 8a's should have training centers for their lucrative contracts in impoverished rural hubs,but instead there is loud applause when they convene and proclaim it's not about jobs.What's left, money?Power?For a few connected folks who lock the door? CDQ's are being quietly subverted by their industry "friends" in Oregon & Washington who have no more scrap metal or rights to vend. Congress is being lobbied in a very sophisticated way to load the Council away from Alaska's current majority.Basing a trawl fleet in Seward reordered the economics of influence.Tribal nonprofits take millions from individual tribes,with pennies on the dollar returned to the community for their investment.It's a rat race to buy a retirement home in the desert or an island and put away those golden years. Or return to the impoverished village you neglected as a corporate officer and pen an autobiography.Why are all these wealthy entities allergic to showing a long term approach to investing at home?
ReplyDeletePersonal greed.
ReplyDeleteFor the LOVE of money...
I agree with the guys comment that the nonprofits really have not done shit for anyone but for themselves, with an indirect rate of 40%+, its no wonder we see the trickle down economy. While it may or may not be true the cdq's are being subverted, it goes back to leadership or lack there of. What role do you has a voter play? I'm not a big fan of the cdq, but I think the improvements to the community are evident and speak for themselves. Pick for battles carefully otherwise you lose the war.
ReplyDeleteWhen your in a rat race, you race with the rats, no matter the disparity of resouces at our disposal. It's like the cliche, when your in Rome, do what the Romans do.
More properly a Ratz race. Privatize everything that swims. The foodbanks doubled their business here in Kodiak this Christmas. Proud people who'd rather risk their lives to put a meal on the table are harvesting the grapes of wrath of the privateering crowd.
ReplyDeleteThis ADFG guy Menard rings a bell. Any relation?:
ReplyDeleteWasilla City Councilman Steve Menard has repaid the city the $350 it paid to the Westmark Sitka hotel for repairs to a room after a three-night stay by Menard, reports the Mat-Su Valley Frontiersman. The council is planning a closed session Monday to discuss Menard's behavior. Menard was one of several city council members and staff attending the summer Alaska Municipal League meetings in Sitka last week. ... According to a bill sent to the city from the Westmark, damage to Menard's room included two mattresses and a chair urinated on, vomit on the carpet, removal of a screen from a window, a burned mattress, all bedding was ruined and there had been smoking in the room, which was prohibited. The room was out of service for three days while staff cleaned and made repairs. ADVERTISEMENT Advertisement Menard, 41, whose late father was a Mat-Su Borough mayor and mother is an Alaska state senator, has been convicted at least twice in recent years for misdemeanor offenses involving drunkenness.
Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2011/08/18/2020643/sitka-hotel-says-wasilla-city.html#storylink=cpy
to the the trailer trash who says the once great and proud aboriginals peoples of this great land should forgo the use of modern utensils to get our food i.ll go one step further we should get rid of the rural or non rural clause and go to a system based on economic need say 30000 a year or less that would get rid of all the little trailer trash millioneer big mouths running around in there pac man boats rapeing and plundering the resource.to the man women or child none of you territorial sports people would go for this!so i'll just go jump in my lund crank my 9.9 up and shoot me a seal or maybe an otter!!!
ReplyDeleteThe ADF&G Commercial Fisheries Division Area Management biologist stationed in Nome, Jim Menard is Wasilla City Councilman Steve "party animal" Menard's uncle.
ReplyDeleteWhen your in Rome do what the Romans did???
ReplyDeleteSelf Distruct, and think, what can you do with that Money, running to hide in another Country?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thornbury_Hoard
Rome Burns, do what the Roman's did?
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannicus
It's a sad state of affairs when an opportunity to have a reasonable discussion on a very important part of the Alaska Native Culture and Tradition of living off the salmon becomes a playground brawl where bigots start calling people hateful names just because they disagree.
ReplyDeleteSigned: The DumbAss Native Wife of Tim
It's a cold winter where many in Western Alaska would envy their counterparts in road system trailer parks living warm in a spacious doublewide trailer.
ReplyDeleteThere are families piled on families due to dysfunctional public housing, and even they are more fortunate than others living with no heat or food in the intense cold.
Healthy runs and markets distribute wealth and self reliance in the broadest way out here. Hatcheries and sound regulation of extractive industries,like trawling, mining, & oil will protect the base of the food web. Keeping regulators of those extractive industries acting in the public interest, free of corruption, or conflict of interest is essential. Investing in the sustainability of our fish stocks through hatcheries, habitat protection, and an untainted regulatory system, can help avoid in the future, the negative feedback loop of the present.
"Living with no heat or food in the intense cold"...good grief. Seriously?
ReplyDeleteThere have been recent cases of clinical malnutrition,starvation, in the AYK region. Unheard of in the past where all were poor but shared. Now there are far fewer fish camps. A runaway diabetes epidemic due to the transition away from wild fish & foods. And the extremely nontraditional political will of various clans to lock up small economies and lock out the less greedy,& more traditional. There have been published accounts of people living in unheated homes. Anyone who has taken the time to review these issues with any awareness & objectivity could say I'm understating the situation.
ReplyDeleteDo you think Morgen Crow's house is ever cold or lacking good food? Larry Cotter looks like he hasn't missed many meals lately. But we're supposed to feel all warm and fuzzy because Norton Sound fishermen scratched up ten grand each for the season? Give me a break.
ReplyDeleteNome just lost one of the kindest, most helpful people in the community on Westbeach. Tough to fight that -30 cold in a salvaged shack.What did it? Cold? Nutrition? A bit late to ask now. A moment of silence please for Napoleon Bergomashi.
ReplyDelete"untainted regulatory system" - if you use plain English, maybe the masses will start standing up for right for a change. Those of us who know, know, but some people can't read between the lines.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the blogger who recommends that we fix the CDQ program rather than the blogger who suggests we "Dismantle the CDQ Programs."
ReplyDeleteSomeone along the way knew about the big numbers of Salmon ByCatch of the Pollock Fishery at least 30 years ago, so Ted Stevens and several others came up with the plan of giving thousands of poor Western Alaska people a HAND-UP in the form of the CDQ program. Twenty years ago this year - 2012! Someone knew that the poor Native people of the Western Alaska Coastal area would feel the crunch from the loss of an important Traditional and Cultural activity of living off of Subsistence caught salmon. As innocent people of a State, they have a right to participate if they think that the people they've trusted to act in their best interests in not working in favor of good will for everybody, which includes themselves.
The mentality that just because we can't allow a handful of people to enrich themselves off of a Public Monies program shouldn't mean that no one else can either. We do have hundreds of honest, hard-working Alaskans willing to make sure our state is a good place to live for everybody regardless of RACE. We cannot allow bigots to lock us out of what makes us happy - a good stash of dry fish for the winter!
I was born and raised in Nome and I read the paper. Am I the only one who has noticed that Tim makes a lot more sense than the NSEDC mouthpiece and the ass kissing morons who hate him so much? If they have any facts showing that he is wrong why do they hide them? It is because he is not wrong isn't it?
ReplyDeletePropangada. It's a thousand years old tactic that keeps a handful of men in control. Twist the words to make your friend your worst enemy. That's manipulation of the ignorant and the illerate. Lies and manipulation works because the people don't have the skills to find out the truth. It's time to challenge the "Information Holders" as some in the know Alaskans have pointed out in the last couple of years. People who know share. Those who think of only themselves, don't!
ReplyDeleteSigned, The DumbAss ----- Wife of -----! note: There are hundreds of us who fit the discription in the Norton Sound and we're all offended by what some punkass kids of angry people say about our right to be involved in issues that effect our rights to freedom and the persuit of happiness in the country where the CDQ funds come from - taxpayers! Everybody who pays taxes have a right to be involved in the exspenditure of such monies. That's what the OCCUPY movement is about. Let's stop wasting the peoples money to enrich a few!
Tim stands for more salmon for all the users in the Norton Sound and I don't see how that makes it just for himself.
ReplyDeleteWe in the US are blessed by a constitution written to protect the rights of all citizens regardless of ethnicity or economic status. If we have people making sure that we don't have a voice in issues that effect our freedom and rights than we have a right to challenge their control. It's our duty to our country; it's what helps us maintain freedom in our country. No one person or group has a right to say we can't be involved.
ReplyDeleteThe salmon issue of the Norton
Sound is an example. Like the blogger who has refered to the "Norton Sound bullies" and the fear they have to challenge them because they are nasty and mean. Nasty and mean is nothing compared to living without a resource guarenteed to all Alaskans by the Constitution of the state. Are we going to allow a handful of greedy men to take away our right???? Challenge the bullies and they run and hide. That's what the studies show about Bullies. Brain is stronger than Brawn in the long run. Try it. You'll survive.
It's a sad sight for anyone who loves Alaska as much as we do, to see an ADFG employee engaged full time in public relations work for CDQ groups and the trawl industry. Even breaking into and disabling a privately owned hatchery on private property. Is a crime lawful when committed by state employees?
ReplyDeleteIs a state job with constitutional responsibilities to all Alaskans a mere bargaining chip to gain lucrative employment in an industry it supposedly regulates?
Is that the status quo in Norton Sound? If so, is it also the norm for Alaska?
To the retard spouting off about dumbass natives. You want Nomeites to step up to the plate and call a spade a spade? Well here I am. You are the one that is full of shit. What have you ever done to make things better for Nome fishing? We all know what the Nome Fishermen's Association has done but what about you? I am guessing nothing more than shoot racist garbage out your pie hole. Am I right?
ReplyDeleteThe "dumbass native" remark wasn't just about natives in general, it was about "dumb ass native wife of...". There are lots and lots of those "dumb ass native" women involved in making sure their children are clothed and fed. Teaching them the art of survival on salmon is a dying art though. It's our fault that we're allowing this to happen.
ReplyDeleteLast summer in July of 2011, an article titled “Chum Bycatch Means More Closures for Pollock Fleet” by Alexandra Gutierrez from the Unalaska Community Broadcasting provided some good information about Chum Salmon Bycatch. If you want to read it yourself – google the writer’s name or Unalaska Community Broadcasting. I don’t know how to cut and paste it for you.
ReplyDeleteThe article notes, “As of July 14,2011”, the Pollock fleet in the Bering Sea took “approximately 53,000 chum salmon” as bycatch. The federal fishing regulators have been addressing Salmon ByCatch since at least 2004 when the issue became public, but every new regulation takes at least 3-4 years before they are in place. Many subsistence users in the Norton Sound recommended a 30,000 cap on Chum Salmon Bycatch last June at the NPFMC held in Nome. The people’s wishes were tolerated but not acted on.
Also quoted in the article is Joe Garnie from Teller. Joe told the reporter that “He worried that high levels of chum bycatch mean that the salmon doesn’t make it up to him and the other subsistence users.” He also pointed out “We’re an impoverished community. You take our kings – they’re extinct. You take our reds – they’re diminished down to near nothing,……The only thing we’ve got left are chums….”.
Whew. Teller still has chums. We need to keep it that way because Nome is just a stone’s throw away and Nome’s rivers have seen serious declines in the last 20+ years. In fact, they are considered “Stocks of Concern” now.
Coming up on January 23, 2012, in the Nome City Council Chambers at 9 AM is a meeting of the Norton Sound/Bering Strait Regional Planning Team. The RPT is responsible for developing comprehensive salmon plans for regions in our state. It’s your chance to get involved. If you don’t like the “status quo” then you should get involved.
Salmon users in the Norton Sound will be interested to know that the Norton Sound/Bering Strait Regional Planning Team has six voting members: three are Fish and Game employees and the other three are either currently employed or affiliated with NSEDC; Charlie Lean, Simon Kineen and Oscar Takak.
ReplyDeleteSince NSEDC is heavily invested in the pollock fishery, their involvement in a public process counteracts against us common folk who have no access to millions of dollars of Public Monies and who are at risk for losing an important freedom - that of subsisting off the salmon.
Get to the meeting on January 23rd and insist that your voices be heard. It's the state's obligation to manage our salmon resources for sustainability.
this must be the dude who was on enge last tiem t alask cafe, the crook who stole from the state and the good people of Nome, theguy who took over the place fraudulently and put his family on the board
ReplyDeleteOscar Takak?
ReplyDeleteYou people must be smoking too much of that wacky tabaccy. Fish and Feathers has done a lot of stuff that I don't agree with but there is no way that they would stoop to "breaking into and disabling a privately owned hatchery on private property." It is fine to criticize them for what they do or don't do with respect to Norton Sound salmon but don't you think accusing them of breaking and entering is going just a little too far?
ReplyDeleteAround here they're the defacto enforcement arm of the trawl industry. This isn't Kansas, Dorothy.
ReplyDeleteYou have to put the chest waders on to get through all the bullshit flowing on this thread!
ReplyDeleteWhy break into a private hatchery and remove essential property under pale of law? Afraid of hatching bycatch? Our whole vanishing way of life, fish camps, stories shared while working together, language, and health are bycatch. For what, for whom? Greed? Political opportunism?
ReplyDeleteSome low-life scum broke into the Prince of Wales Hatchery this spring and killed all of the fish. I hope they find them and string 'em up.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry to hear that it happened up there too. I didn't see anything about it in the news. The one down here got a lot of coverage when it happened but I never heard the final outcome.
What is Alaska coming to?
Maybe we can sell AYK back to the Russians?
ReplyDeleteDid Ivan ever truly relinquish control? Metard struts around with a Red Army surplus hat with a little red badge every winter. Commissar Bubbleoff.
ReplyDeleteThere has been millions of dollars spent on this Norton Sound salmon problem since the mid-90’s. Five Million, $5,000,000.00, was spent in what was called The Norton Sound Salmon Initiative thanks to Ted Stevens. Five Million – poof – salmon runs still weak.
ReplyDeleteMy wild guess is that the amount for the Norton Sound Salmon Restoration and Research is nearing at least Fifteen Million, $15,000,000.00 by now. Fifteen Million – poof- salmon runs still weak.
Then I heard the craziest thing recently. Jim Menard is going to open a commercial fishery for salmon in the Nome Subdistrict next summer. The Constitution of our state mandates that when a resource is restricted, the priority is given to the Subsistence Users. I guess this state regulation doesn’t count up here in the Norton Sound.
Look at the numbers given in Kaweraks latest newletter to the region titled “Low Fish Runs in the Rivers near the Nome Area”. Learn about the Salmon ByCatch of the Pollock Fishery. The sacrifice is on the poor people. It’s recommended in that same article that we “Don’t target those species with low counts: avoid catching them in the first place(even for catch and release.)” It also gives tips on how to release those low count salmon if you accidently catch them. The sacrifice is on the poor people.
How many more Millions are we going to spend before we can get to the point of having enough salmon for all of the users? Make sure you go to the January 23rd, 2012 meeting of the Norton Sound/Bering Strait Regional Planning Team meeting in the Nome City Council Chambers at 9 AM. If the crowd is too big for the space, then I’m sure they’ll find somewhere bigger like the Mini Convention Center or Old Saint Joe’s.
DANWOT
I think there is some confusion about the meeting on the 23rd. it is about hatcherys and such, nothing to do with managing fisherys.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=fishingHatcheriesPlanning.regional
ReplyDeleteOh that's right, silly me. The Norton Sound/Bering Strait Regional Salmon Planning Team doesn't have anything to do with managing Norton Sound salmon fisheries does it? It's mostly about something entirely different isn't it? I forgot what that other thing is though.
ReplyDeleteSon of a gun, I found some of the regulations for regional salmon planning teams. You're absolutely right. Nothing in there about managing fisheries.
5 AAC 40.300. Regional planning teams in general.
The commissioner will establish regions and regional planning teams for the primary purpose of developing comprehensive salmon plans for various regions of the state. The provisions of 5 AAC 40.300 - 5 AAC 40.370 govern the structure and functions of each regional planning team and the development of a comprehensive salmon plan for each region.
History: Eff. 3/31/85, Register 93
5 AAC 40.340. Regional planning team responsibility
Each regional planning team shall prepare a regional comprehensive salmon plan, for the appropriate region, to rehabilitate natural stocks and supplement natural production, with provisions for both public and private nonprofit hatcheries. Each regional planning team shall consider the needs of all user groups and ensure that the public has opportunity to participate in the development of the comprehensive salmon plan. Each regional comprehensive plan must define regional production goals by species, area, and time.
History: Eff. 3/31/85, Register 93
Authority: AS 16.05.020
AS 16.05.092
AS 16.10.375
5 AAC 40.360. Public involvement.
Each regional planning team shall encourage public participation during all stages of the development and review of regional comprehensive salmon plans.
History: Eff. 3/31/85, Register 93
Authority: AS 16.05.020 AS 16.05.092 AS 16.10.375
5 AAC 40.370. Plan approval.
(a) A draft regional comprehensive salmon plan must be submitted to the PNP coordinator for department review and comment.
(b) The draft regional comprehensive salmon plan must be distributed for public review.
(c) The regional planning team shall respond to comments received as a result of these reviews, and may incorporate them in the final draft of the regional comprehensive salmon plan.
(d) The regional planning team shall submit a final draft of the regional comprehensive salmon plan to the commissioner for review and approval.
History: Eff. 3/31/85, Register 93
Authority: AS 16.05.020 AS 16.05.092 AS 16.10.375
http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=fishingHatcheriesPlanning.enhance
ReplyDeleteSec. 16.10.375. Regional salmon plans.
ReplyDeleteThe commissioner shall designate regions of the state for the purpose of salmon production and have developed and amend as necessary a comprehensive salmon plan for each region, including provisions for both public and private nonprofit hatchery systems. Subject to plan approval by the commissioner, comprehensive salmon plans shall be developed by regional planning teams consisting of department personnel and representatives of the appropriate qualified regional associations formed under AS 16.10.380 .
Sec. 16.10.380. Regional associations.
(a) The commissioner shall assist in and encourage the formation of qualified regional associations for the purpose of enhancing salmon production. A regional association is qualified if the commissioner determines that it
(1) is comprised of associations representative of commercial fishermen in the region;
(2) includes representatives of other user groups interested in fisheries within the region who wish to belong; and
(3) possesses a board of directors that includes no less than one representative of each user group that belongs to the association.
(b) A qualified regional association, when it becomes a nonprofit corporation under AS 10.20, is established as a service area in the unorganized borough under AS 29.03.020 for the purpose of providing salmon enhancement services.
(c) In this section "user group" includes, but is not limited to, sport fishermen, processors, commercial fishermen, subsistence fishermen, and representatives of local communities.
Sec. 16.10.400. Permits for salmon hatcheries.
(a) The commissioner or a designee may issue a permit, subject to the restrictions imposed by statute or regulation under AS 16.10.400 - 16.10.470, to a nonprofit corporation organized under AS 10.20, after the permit application has been reviewed by the regional planning team, for
(1) the construction and operation of a salmon hatchery;
(2) the operation of a hatchery under AS 16.10.480 .
(b) The application for a permit under this section shall be on a form prescribed by the department and be accompanied by an application fee of $100. The commissioner may waive the submission of an application for a permit to operate a hatchery under AS 16.10.480 .
(c) A hatchery permit is nontransferable. If a permit holder sells or leases a hatchery for which a permit is issued under this section, the new operator shall apply for a new permit under this section.
(d) [Repealed, Sec. 19 ch 154 SLA 1977].
(e) A qualified regional association formed under AS 16.10.380 , if it has become a nonprofit corporation under AS 10.20, has a preference right to a permit under (a)(1) of this section if its proposed hatchery is provided for in the comprehensive plan for that region developed under AS 16.10.375 and the fresh water source exceeds one cubic foot per second minimum flow. Another local nonprofit hatchery corporation approved by a qualified regional association has an identical preference right.
(f) Except for permits issued before June 16, 1976, a permit may not be issued for construction or operation of a hatchery on an anadromous fish stream unless the stream has been classified as suitable for enhancement purposes by the commissioner. The commissioner shall undertake to make such classifications in conjunction with the development of the comprehensive plan under AS 16.10.375.
(g) During the development of a comprehensive plan for a region a permit may not be issued for a hatchery unless the commissioner determines that the action would result in substantial public benefits and would not jeopardize natural stocks.
the board of fish is incharge of fisherys not the planning team
ReplyDeletehttp://www.legis.state.ak.us/basis/folioproxy.asp?url=http://wwwjnu01.legis.state.ak.us/cgi-bin/folioisa.dll/aac/query=[JUMP:'Title5Chap04!2C+a!2E+3']/doc/{@1}/hits_only?firsthit
Hatcheries are Frankensteins monsters.
ReplyDeleteYou create an artificial beast that REQUIRES corporate contract sales that undermine the fisherman's ability to negotiate a fair price.
Don't do it!
Eggboxes are an entirely different thing. They can be used to enhance at a much lower cost. They don't require management teams and other corporate expenses that add up to millions!
I thought everyone remembered we've been there, & done that with no results for the many thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours expended.
ReplyDeleteIncubator boxes may perform optimally in a temperate rainforest, but due to extreme climactic shifts fell short here. 1/3 of Alaska's runs derive from hatcheries.
They are proven.
Instream incubator boxes (eggboxes) were used in Norton Sound during 1991-99. We have no data whatsoever showing they contributed anything to the numbers of salmon returning to be harvested by Norton Sound fishermen. The people that worked with them believe they worked as a matter of faith and they probably did but ADF&G abandoned the program because there were far too many catastrophic failures where all of the eggs were lost.
ReplyDeleteAs the guy above said, Norton Sound is not the place for instream incubator boxes.
As for hatcheries in general, PSWAC ruined everything by creating humongous salmon runs every year in Prince William Sound didn't they? I bet those fishermen in Cordova wish they could be like Norton Sound commercial fishermen and have a fine salmon season every 30 years or so where they grossed $10,000 apiece. Yeah, they might not have much to live on but they would be able to sleep soundly at night knowing that they didn't use modern technology to enhance their economic return.
Boy it's amazing what you can learn from the internets, ain't it? So "the board of fish is incharge of fisherys" is it? That's not what it says in the Alaska Constitution but some clown posting on Wesley's blog says it's the fish board so that must be the way it is.
ReplyDeleteThose posers over at ADF&G are always strutting around acting all puffed up like *they* are the ones who manage our fisheries but now we know they are just slinging the bull.
Thanks for that link to the Norton salmon fishing regulations too. That really cleared things up for me about who *really*manages fisheries in Alaska.
One of my buddies said it was the State of Alaska through the governor but he's wrong about almost everything. Thanks again for that important information.
Have fun throwing your money away on hatcheries in the frigid west. You shouldn't waste more than 100 million before you pull the plug. Anything less than that, you can't really claim that you gave it your all.
ReplyDeleteHatchery production in the frigid west is a waste of money hmm. And you know this how?
ReplyDeleteI'm sure that was said that about Chile before they created huge sea runs of salmon gorging on antarctic krill.If hatcheries in proximity to the antarctic have changed the salmon seascape, why not the arctic as well.
ReplyDeleteKotzebue still harvests an arctic surplus of hatchery descended fish.
They respect their traditions as much as anyone.Loading boats with fish doesn't seem to bother anyone up there one bit. The key difference is that years back when they had an opportunity to enhance their runs, their farsighted leadership embraced it.And built up a run with a fraction of what has been squandered on a per diem coma
in Norton Sound.
Almost all harvest in Kotzebue was/is from wild runs, even when the hatchery was running (peak production was about 90,000 chum returning). There is a big difference between the climate of Norton Sound and that of Chile's salmon producing region. I don't think you can call Chile sub- antarctic, really. Its wine country more like. That said, there's plenty of money running around up there in Nome to try and develop something. Who knows? It might work, they did have one going in Kotzebue, after all.
ReplyDeleteMy question is why are chum runs doing well in Kotzebue, yet less so in Norton Sound? Summer and fall chum runs up the Yukon, to the south, are doing fine too. Not sure you can blame it on a small amount of trawl by-catch in the BS pollock fishery.
But Chilean fish range far south.One good fall Yukon chum run is hardly a trend.
ReplyDeleteAnd the restrictions on summer chums on the Yukon to allow kings to escape has helped chums.But that begs the question, where are the Yukon Kings?
But it's preferable to engineer a solution through hatcheries than spin blame another decade or two. Don't need millions to get going now, just a permit from ADFG to operate the hatchery we do have.
The numbers ADF&G has published for the contribution of the Sikusuilaq Springs Hatchery to the total chum salmon return and to the commercial and subsistence harvests are debatable. You have to remember that there were a substantial cadre of individuals at ADF&G who were philosophically opposed to hatchery production to the point of zealotry.
ReplyDeleteThe hatchery manager for the entire time the Sikusuilaq Springs Hatchery was in operation estimates that the hatchery contribution was on the order of 150,000 chum salmon annually.
Doug Eggers and John Clark wrote a 2006 manuscript for ADF&G that was never peer reviewed saying the peak contribution from Sikusuilaq Springs was 90,000 but I don't see any reason to accept their opinions. They use some questionable assumptions in their analysis and I think it is fair to say that they did not support the continued operations of the hatchery for political and philosophical reasons and that puts their objectivity into question.
That being said, let's put this in perspective. A Sikusuilaq Springs sized hatchery in Norton Sound producing 90,000 chum salmon per year during the last 20 years would have tripled the commercial chum salmon harvest and at a fraction what NSEDC spent doing whatever it is that they have been doing for salmon restoration and fisheries development.
As for your questions about why the chum salmon runs are doing so well in Kotzebue and fall chums up the Yukon are doing fine.
For Kotzebue, I think Sikusuilaq Springs is an important factor. If there is anything we have learned through hard experience, once you drive salmon stocks to very low numbers, it appears to be impossible to ever bring them back. The Kotzebue stocks never got depleted the way Norton Sound runs did. The other thing is that Kotzebue chum salmon are fall chums that are not intercepted at Area M or taken as pollock trawl bycatch in large numbers the way summer chums are.
My answer for the Yukon River fall chums is the same as for Wesley's article above, it is too soon to start popping the champagne corks after the first couple of decent runs following many years of run failure. We'll see about that.
Whether or not "you can blame it on a small amount of trawl by-catch in the BS pollock fishery." is a big unknown. We don't have enough data to even begin to answer that question but compared to the size of Norton Sound chum salmon stocks, BSAI trawl bycatch is not a "small amount". In 2005 the trawlers killed and wasted 700,000 chum salmon from mixed stocks. There is no way that can be done without endangering the weak stocks in Norton Sound and no way to measure the impact. It's just plain bad management that violates the State of Alaska's mixed stock policy and several of the National Standards contained in the Magnuson-Stevens Act.
We don't know if we will ever get good genetic data on salmon, they keep delaying the results of WASSIP which is a bad sign. Killing large numbers of salmon without knowing the impact on their populations is irresponsible and the only reason it has been allowed to continue is the amount of money the industry doing the interception is able to bring to bear on the decision makers.
Western Alaska salmon dependent communities have no political power and now we find that we are being sold out by our neighbors who have managed to find a way to wallow in the CDQ program trough.
Who is "Tim"?
ReplyDeleteWho are you?
ReplyDeleteChum by-catch dropped dramatically after 2006. 2010 chum by-catch was 16,000 (what? no atta boys from AYK though). Yet you cherry pick 2005, the outlier, to bolster your riff. 75% of them aren't even going to AYK (Asia mostly), yet you imply they're all AYK origin. For chum, by-catch is a non-issue. Keep an eye on it, but quit beating the dead horse already.
ReplyDeleteNo, the trawl industry has quit beating dead salmon. It's easy to avoid catching what you've pushed to the brink of extinction. It's a global phenomena. Where large scale trawling exists, small inshore fisheries suffer.As well as other pelagic fisheries.Greenpeace's documentation of the Zhemchung Trench showed the scars of "midwater" trawling on the sea floor. Clearcutting the Bering Sea has a cumulative effect. The entire ecosystem is showing signs of stress. Bycatch is a misnomer. When an industry's overall bycatch exceeds the "targeted" species by a multiple, it becomes clear that pollock in a real sense are bycatch.Everything else in the ecosystem and the human communities dependent on it become the targeted species.
ReplyDeleteTalk about "cherry picken' to bolster your riff".The trawl industry misinformants must hane an "information excluder device" when they trawl statistics for economic
ReplyDeleteadvantage.Chum bycatch in your BS trawl 2011 was substantial. Why dodge it?
To the blogger @12/29, 1:52 PM who said “It’s because Norton Sound salmon runs have been depleted for 30 years and nobody knows why and nobody is doing anything about it except counting fish.”
ReplyDelete“nobody knows why”: We’ve learned about Salmon Bycatch of the Pollock Fishery and that’s one of the reasons why the salmon runs up and down the coast of Western Alaska have been in decline for YES, you are right, “30 years” - that’s since the early 80’s. Another possible reason why we’ve seen the runs become “depleted” is mismanagement mainly because management is being manipulated by a power control group. In other words, nasty politics.
“nobody is doing anything about it”: I disagree with you here. There has been lots done in the last 20 years to address the Norton Sound depleted salmon runs. Read the post about the millions and millions of dollars spent to address the issue since the 90’s. Ted Stevens tried to help but the Norton Sound Salmon Initiative monies became a political pawn for a control group. The Norton Sound/Bering Strait Regional Planning Team developed a Salmon Management Plan for the Norton Sound in the 90’s but nobody was held accountable for its contents. The Plan was ignored because the general population had no idea it existed. This is called manipulating the ignorant.
“nobody” is you. What are you doing about it? I know I’ve been getting defamed, hated and put-down with lies, speculations and gossip. The crap just flows off my back because I know the truth. Truth is power. Find out the truth and stand behind it. Bullies eventually lie themselves right into a corner.
I’m going to recommend that you get behind someone that makes the most sense to you, then give that someone support. One man alone can’t stand up against the political stonewalling hold that the Norton Sound sly knaves have on our salmon resources. They don’t care about us. You need to start caring about yourself, your family, your future and be counted. Use your voice. Societies can’t make change without a lot of voices demanding that the leaders are accountable to the public’s best interests. It’s our money that is paying their wages. Hold them accountable to US.
You could start by talking to the Fish and Game employees. They manage the resources for us, the people. You could talk to the people running NSEDC. They manage the millions and millions of dollars given to us, the people, through the Federal Government. You could talk to people at Kawerak. Their mission is to protect the people’s subsistence lifestyle.
These people are your neighbors. Hold them accountable.
Everybody wants more salmon because salmon is good food.
danwot
If the upcoming Norton Sound/Bering Strait Regional Planning Team meeting on January 23, 2012 in the Nome City Council Chambers is indeed about "hatcheries" then we the people are being mislead by the control group.
ReplyDeleteBlogger on 12/29 @ 1:52 PM notes that "nobody is doing anything about it(30 years of depleted salmon runs)except counting fish." Counting fish gives the appearance of "doing something". We want more than an appearance - we want more salmon!
"For chum, by-catch is a non-issue"
ReplyDeleteYou can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time. Abraham Lincoln
I kind of suspect that the number of people you can fool by posting an unsupported opinion on the comments to Wesley's blog is miniscule but don't let me stop you from trying.
During 2011, the BSAI pollock trawlers killed and wasted 191,441 chum salmon if you believe the numbers from the observers. Every observer I've talked to says that there is a lot of pressure and chicanery used to underreport salmon bycatch so I'd take that with a large grain of salt.
Even taken at face value, the trawl bycatch was nearly twice the size of the fine catch Norton Sound commercial salmon fishermen took this year.
Non-issue is it? I'm curiously awaiting some sort of explanation as to where you came up with that bit of information although I don't have a lot of doubt that it was by rectal extraction alone.
Tim is that guy from Nome who writes letters to the editor about fisheries stuff in the Nome Nugget newspaper. NSEDC has been trying for years to shut him up but they haven’t been able come up with any facts to show where he is wrong. The last time they tried, Dan Harrelson and Don Stiles wrote a scathing rebuttal in a column in the Nome Nugget and Tim came back with proof that everything they said was a pack of lies and made them look like idiots. Danno and Donny have been silent ever since. Cockroaches hate having the light shone on them.
ReplyDeleteSalmon production areas in Chile don't freeze over.
ReplyDeleteThe energy costs to maintain a large scale hatchery facility in western Alaska would be cost prohibitive.
The fish would cost more than if you bought them elsewhere and flew them in.
Who wants a large scale hatchery facility in Norton Sound?
ReplyDelete"The fish would cost more than if you bought them elsewhere and flew them in."
The bottom line for all of you guys is that we should just move out of western Alaska and live in the real world like everybody else.
Hokkaido has blistering cold, sea ice, and a vast output of hatchery salmon. Sakhalin Island as well has inclement weather, sea ice, and successful salmon hatcheries.Nome has a hatchery. Why the concerted effort to disable it if it does not work? The Kobuk hatchery worked as well, for years. You're right. You couldn't run a hatchery in the north, just as not everyone is adaptable enough to survive in the arctic. But some can and do, and will.
ReplyDeleteThe Chileans are fish farming, not ocean ranching. Their fish are kept in pens, they spend their lives swimming around in big circles, not roaming the southern seas. They eat meal fed to them out of a bag, not gorging themselves on krill.
ReplyDeleteI thought everyone knew that by now.
Tim knows about that. Why not ask him?
ReplyDeleteThere are wild sea run Chinooks in Patagonia as well. The irony is you stand a better chance of hooking a king in Chile than Norton Sound. They are in fact propagating streams on the Atlantic side of Patagonia from host rivers on the Pacific side.If you wish do do some homework prior to a future display of ignorance on the subject, please reference, "Colonization of the Southern Patagonia Ocean by Exotic Chinook Salmon". By Leandro A. Becker, Miguel A. Pascal,& Nestor Basso. Dept of Biology. University of Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
ReplyDeleteThere are six hatcheries on Sakhalin Island. Their sea ice looks familiar.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.eosnap.com/image-of-the-day/ice-around-sakhalin-island-in-the-sea-of-okhotsk/
You wouldn't be able to do crap if it weren't for oil and trawl money...be real.
ReplyDeletePerhaps your approach has merit. They use oil & gas exploration revenues on Sakhalin to build hatcheries. As the State of Alaska has, devoting over 100,000 dollars to mega hatcheries in Anchorage & Fairbanks.
ReplyDeleteExcuse me, that's approximately $100,000,000 cumulatively on Anchorage
ReplyDelete& Fairbanks hatcheries.
Chinooks...fish farm escapees gone wild, imagine that!
ReplyDeleteI'll reiterate, you illiterate. Read the report referred to prior to any more foot biting. The Chilean chinooks were stocks transported from the Green River in Washington State expressly for the purpose of building wild runs in Patagonia. With great success.
ReplyDeleteThe horror. It must be devastating to have wild Chinook salmon in the rivers in Chile. With any luck, the continued depredations of trawler bycatch and lack of attention from ADF&G that's something we won't have to deal with much longer in Norton Sound because all of the Chinook stocks will be wiped out. It will be great having empty rivers like those Chileans had before the damned wild Chinooks got into theirs.
ReplyDeletePerhaps we can earmark some oil revenue to transport the population of Norton Sound to Patagonia to purse their subsistence lifestyle without hindrance. Then there would be nobody to inhibit the extraction of oil, minerals, & pollock in Western Alaska, needlessly fretting about the environmental impacts, and raising legal obstacles.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, life is too short. When you have to say "Where's the summer?" and someone says "It was two weeks ago, remember those two nice days." Time to leave or quit trying to get someone else to buy your happiness. There is a better life out there. Getting off at the first stop of the land bridge bus was a little too early. Frozen tundra living IS a tough life. Buck up or move on. It's called taking responsibility.
ReplyDeleteBuck up? What does that mean in this conext?
ReplyDeleteKeep the conversation on salmon in Norton Sound going. It's probably one of the most important issues in the lives of thousands of poor people right now.
ReplyDeleteSalmon use to be easy to catch and process into dry fish when they were abundant 25+ years ago. Most of the native people in the Western Alaska villages without an 8-5 job have time on their hands to take care of their subsistence food. We're destroying a priceless culture and tradition by not holding our Leaders accountable.
My friend's mom caught two humpies to dry with her rod and reel last summer. She is at least half way to 90 years old. She use to process over 50 a day until her rack was full. The dry fish kept her family, relatives and friends from total dependance on food stamps and welfare. That was back when the poor people shared because they could. We've already lost that part of the Eskimo Culture. The poor sharing because they could.
Any leader in Western Alaska who wants to leave a legacy, could do no better to commemorate the stewardship of their people's destiny, than by rebuilding salmon stocks now. By doing so in one movement families, health, culture, economies, and traditions become revitalized, vibrant. Tier 2 would be an archaeological relic of a failed era. Boldly proclaiming you aren't for sale to powerful fishing interests in Seattle and abroad would set an example of statesmanship for a new generation of aspiring leaders to emulate. The irony of the present is that we're richer in wealth than ever before, yet poorer in spirit. There is a surplus of wealth. A turnkey hatchery facility ready to operate.If not now when? If not us whom?
ReplyDeleteBusy thread today..
ReplyDeleteChum by-catch a non-issue? Perhaps the wrong wording. How about over-wrought concern instead?
Anonymous@8:01am posted "Even taken at face value, the trawl bycatch was nearly twice the size of the fine catch Norton Sound commercial salmon fishermen took this year."
OK...well, so what? Yes, the 2011 chum by-catch was larger than the Norton Sound commercial harvest. It sounds like it means something, and perhaps it conjures up some emotion that plays well somewhere. Maybe its supposed to imply those were Norton Sound chums, or something. But, it has no relevance as to whether the chum by-catch has a significant impact on AYK chum stocks. Its just a number, put up there with out any context.
Blogging with you Norton Sound guys over stuff like this is like going into a full church on a Sunday, and trying to convince the flock on the merits of Darwin's theories. Its kind of interesting to debate, but ultimately its futile because you end up arguing with religion, which is able to gloss over all manner of facts. True believers you all are.
Here's the facts as I understand them, but then I'm just an idiot fisherman, unsupported opinions and all, so feel free to correct me if you can show me where I'm wrong: Chum by-catch is mostly in the B season. B season chums are mostly Asian. According to NMFS genetic ID work, only 12% (5 year average) of chums caught in the pollock fishery would return to the western AK. summer chum group, which includes Norton Sound. This group also includes Bristol Bay, Kuskokwim, lower Yukon. That's 12%. Lets use your big 2011 number of 190,000 chum by-catch, that's about 23,000 chums total headed to western coastal AK. Out of a run that's probably north of 5 million chums overall. And that's probably a conservative number. That an exploitation rate less than 0.5%. That's the number that matters, and its pretty damn small.
Maybe you could do a literature search and try to find a published study on a fishery that has an exploitation rate on a stock of less than 1% and that concludes the harvest poses a risk to that stock. Post it up here if you find it, I'd be interested to read it.
Its a testament to the political power AYK groups do have that they've got the Council to consider hard caps as low as 50,000 chum.
Whatever anyone thinks of the pollock fishery, cdq's and all that, it will be ironic if we end up closing the pollock fishery because they caught too many Japanese and Russian hatchery fish!
I don't wish any ill will with my comments, I just think you guys spend way too much time barking up a tree with nothing in it.
If you aspire to fish salmon in Norton Sound you are truly "barking op a tree with nothing in it". The collapse of Norton Sound runs coincided with extremely high trawl bycatch prior to conservation measures being levied by the Council.
ReplyDeleteThe irrational fear by the trawl industry of hatcheries producing potential future bycatch has had a negative influence on rehabilitation efforts in Western Alaska streams. Pollock do not observe international boundaries. Nor are they governed by international treaties like salmon and halibut. Yet. Showing respect toward Asian salmon bycatch by the Bering Sea fleet would encourage reciprocal respect by Russian trawlers (some partnered with American companies) across the date line, when they intercept North American salmon stocks.It's time to make salmon. And not only salmon but crab and cod eventually. 44% of midwater trawls make contact with the sea floor. It's terribly destructive of benthic habitat. Halibut bycatch by the pollock fleet in the Gulf of Alaska is downright obscene. And is contributing to the severe curtailment of directed halibut fisheries in Southeast. It's the percentages, even small ones, over broad stretches of time that determine the survival of a species, an ecosystem, or a civilization. Darwin would agree, I'm certain.
Darwin would propose that stronger, faster, smarter would survive and result in a better breed.
ReplyDeleteBut, Darwin subsequently renounced his theories of evolution and submitted to intelligent design.
If the theory of evolution were correct, we would all have long necks, fins, legs,and arms, gills and lungs, four eyes, asexual reproduction, chameleon-like camoflauge, thick fur, be able to run 60mph, etc...
As I say, hard to argue with religion.
ReplyDeleteI'm not defending the environmental record of the trawl industry, please. I'm just pointing out the science doesn't support the hyperbole surrounding the chum by-catch issue, and is likely not a causative factor in recovery/depression of these runs.
The Japanese/Russians are releasing BILLIONS of chum fry into the N. Pacific every year. Its a small wonder the trawlers aren't catching more of them.
Salmon are an amazingly adaptable and resilient species. If you have good escapement, good habitat, and good environmental conditions then you have fish. If you don't, then usually its one of those three things. If you look around the Pacific rim, long-term salmon declines have generally coincided with habitat degradation, for example. I disagree with your opinion their existence is determined, in part, by small incidental harvests at the margins over long periods of time. Salmon are far hardier than that. Whether Darwin would agree is, of course, unknowable.
I have no understanding of the surrounding politics and technological feasibility of hatchery enhancement in the Norton Sound area. It does strike me as something positive residents/State of Alaska can do, rather than what's been going on for the last 20 years or more.
Are you saying that what happens in freshwater during the first year (the number of eggs deposited in the gravel and the number of fry surviving to go to sea) is the only thing that determines the number of fish returning to Norton Sound be harvested and to make escapement four years later?
ReplyDeleteWhat happens to the fish during the three years they are at sea doesn't matter at all?
Is that what you are saying?
Reading these comments has revealed that there are a lot of dumb people out there. Either that, or a few dumb people are writing the majority of the blogs. A few loud well read squeaky wheels seem to continue this misinformation campaign of a perceived salmon disaster in Norton Sound. Most of the salmon runs to Norton Sound are stable and healthy. Sure it was easier to go out and harvest your larder of salmon back in the good old days. That doesn't mean there were more fish back then. It merely means that the DF&G was not as involved in terms of regulating harvests and monitoring escapements. There were no counting towers or weirs or test fishery projects back then. They flew a few aerial surveys; that's it. So they really don't know how big the salmon runs were back then. There have also been cultural changes. More people moved away from the villages, more villagers eat frozen pizza and hot pockets, more people have 8-5 jobs at places like NSEDC and only get their subsistence fishing in on the weekends. People also prefer pinks now because they dry easier. Chums are a lot more work to dry to a finished product. In the modern age, we want everything the easy way so if I can make my dryfish in three days because I have to dry chums instead of pinks, its a bad year. Really? In the old days, people went to fish camp for how ever long as necessary to make subsistence and everyone contributed. Now we try to squeeze it in on the weekend if we can and only a few elders are fishing for several. Harvests of chum are down for a variety of reasons, including the ones just mentioned. Of course, I'm not ignorant to the fact that you non-homies won't listen to a word I'm saying and can't wait to get the latest edition of "the world according to Tim Smith". Tim Smith is a charlatan, a fraud (he's tried to steal the identity of the real NSBSRAA), a liar, and a manipulator of the truth. No one will be able to shut him up because he has nothing else to do...no job...no real purpose...no civic duties...no real responsibilities. It doesn't take much of an investigation into Tim's past to see that he's been fired from nearly every job he's had because he always new better than his supervisor or because he falsified data for reports that served his own purposes, he attempted to steal state property, he's ripped of his own friends,...and I'm sure that's just the tip of the iceberg. That's with only one layer of the onion pulled back. I suspect he'll be blogging and writing letters about how the whole world is out to get him even from the confines of a jail cell someday...God willing. Praised be Allah. Man from Da Kleet
ReplyDeleteThe other thing he has done is prove that your 17 November column in the Nome paper was full of lies. He does it with facts that anybody can check. You do it with personal attacks you can't back up that would get you sued for libel if you did it openly instead of hiding like a scared little girl.
ReplyDelete"Most of the salmon runs to Norton Sound are stable and healthy."
ReplyDeleteYou need to lay offa tha pipe for a while bubba if you believe that.
Ah. Good to see that Eric is out there ever threatening to sue over his butt buddy Tim. That's the only way you guys have ever generated any income though right. Making frivalous lawsuits until you win a war of attrition. I suspect those days are coming to an end from what I am hearing in the wind. Tim's right, you guys must be living in a parallel universe. Oh yeah, and I don't smoke.
ReplyDeleteHey Kleetus, you should get the word to Fish and Game about the stable and healthy salmon runs in Norton Sound. Those morons have got them listed as stocks of concern. 44 kings for the second year in a row in the Pilgrim River. It don't get much stabler and healthier than that.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, how do those guys make money off of a "frivalous" lawsuit? On Judge Judy they always lose when they try that.
Might there be a relationship between high hatchery production in Asia and lower wild production in Western Alaska?
ReplyDeleteYeah, salmon are resilient but not so resilent as to be able to surmount ocean carrying capacity limitations.
“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”
ReplyDeleteMahatma Gandhi quotes (Indian Philosopher, internationally esteemed for his doctrine of nonviolent protest, 1869-1948)
Mahatma Gandhi
ReplyDelete“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.”
― Mahatma Gandhi
I've heard people hawking that carrying capacity hypothesis for years. It sounds good but until they come up with data, it's just a hypothesis.
ReplyDeleteThe funny thing is the same people who say that hatchery fish are weak and maladapted say that they are able to outcompete wild fish for food in the North Pacific. It's hard to imagine how it could work both ways.
It's too bad that the science behind all of this has so many shortcomings but after 30 years of hand waving and gum flapping, nobody has been able to come up with a solution to the shortages of salmon in western Alaska other than hatchery production that have any reasonable chance of fixing the problem and we have tried everything else. We have the only Tier II subsistence fishery in the state for any species.
Tim stands for more salmon for all the users in the Norton Sound and I don't see how that makes it just for himself.
ReplyDeleteTen years of pull tab revenues plus at least$300,000 from NSEDC and $50,000 from the state gets you 2008 14 pinks, 2009 1 chum 5 cohos, 2010 4 chum 6 cohos this is from the states Mark Summary Report. Anyone know what kind of bank the NFA is bringing in on pull tabs and who decides how it is spent?
And blogging with you bycatch deniers is like walking into a coven, standing in the center of the pentagram and telling the assembled that Satan isn't real. Your minds are made up.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with all those mathematical justifications for saying bycatch isn't important is that the implicit assumptions behind the models are unsupportable. It doesn't make any difference whether it's Jim Ianalli doing it for NMFS or an anonymous blogger doing it here, the stock composition of the bycatch is unknown at the level needed to determine the impact on specific Norton Sound stocks of concern. The geneticists admit that. They can't break it down to specific rivers of origin.
Not only that, they also admit that the genetic sampling wasn't done in a way that allows for meaningful statistical analysis. The observers took samples when they could get them. When you start out with data collected using invalid sampling procedures, the models will still give you an answer; it just doesn't mean much.
You are correct, 12% of 190,000 = 23,000. How many of those 23,000 are Norton Sound fish? The geneticists tell us they don't know. DNA analysis of an improperly collected sample of the bycatch determined that 12% of the sample in previous years was from western Alaska fish. What does that tell us about the bycatch in 2011? Since we don't have any stock identification information on the bycatch caught in 2011, it is impossible to say. Is the stock composition of the bycatch the same every year? Nobody knows.
So what was the exploitation rate for the Nome River due to pollock trawl bycatch? We have no data on that. Maybe your calculations are close to the actual number and maybe they aren't. Nobody knows.
The bottom line is that killing salmon in mixed stock fisheries can result in overexploitation of weak stocks like the ones in Norton Sound. It's bad management.
As for the disregard for killing Asian origin salmon. Is that a smart thing to say? If we think it is OK to trash their fish, should we be surprised if they treat ours the same way? The national standards in the MSA mandate bycatch minimization, they don't say anything about where the bycaught fish are from.
Does anyone out there know the bank on Siu (See-You) Corp? They should rename it Suglu (liar) Corp. And how the money is spent? What is charged on corporate cards? Or the millions vanishing into the Aleutian #1? With such a minute payout to our Womens Group??
ReplyDeleteStealing from homeless women who were given a share in a vessel is shameful.Or is it just incompetence?
In gang language, "Man from Da Kleet"; in plain English - Man from Unalakleet.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, he said "People also prefer pinks now because they dry easier." Yes, that is the prefered salmon for the working people, a few hundred at least in the Norton Sound. Pinks are small and lean so YES, they do dry faster.
The real reason why people are drying humpies is because the Summer Chum Run is in danger of being wiped out. Summer Chum Run in June, the best fish drying month of the whole season.
A dried Chum can feed up to six people compared to a dried Humpie feeding up to two. No, the people don't "prefer pinks now", they can't fish the prefered chum during the best drying month of the Norton Sound summer.
Funny how the facts get distorted depending on who tells the stories.
To the blogger Jan 6 at 10:08 PM, who wants to know "..what kind of bank....NFA.....pull tabs...." just ask the insider down there at Wells Fargo. The numbers were flowing last spring.
ReplyDeleteWhile you are at it, ask about the other pull tab accounts, Nome Chamber, Nome Sports, Nome Preschool, CHARR, if you want to know other people's business.
Pull Tabs. Poor people shelling out a few bucks hoping to win a bigger pot. Poor people funding a whole lot of programs for Nome. Poor people losing an important way of life - subsisting off salmon.
From Jim Menard’s report, page 5 (salmon 2011): “Average weight by species was..”:
ReplyDelete11.4 King Salmon
7.0 Chum Salmon
7.3 Coho Salmon (Silver)
2.8 Pink Salmon (Humpy)
6.9 Sockeye Salmon (Red)
The salmon are getting smaller.
In any wild species, we know from hundreds of years of observation, the bigger and stronger reproduce because they have the energy to expel during their instinctual reproductive period.
Smaller, weaker salmon reproducing for declining runs. Can the wild stock salmon survive this natural cycle of survival of the fittest?
Blogger, Jan 7 @ 5:02 AM, refers to “Stealing from homeless women who were given a share in a vessel….” forgot to mention that those women are also victims of Domestic Violence and they come along with HOMELESS children, who, are also VICTIMS of DOMESTIC VIOLENCE.
ReplyDeleteWithout a gainful way to make a living in the poor villages of the Norton Sound, it’s not surprising that many of the unemployed able men are living in a hopeless situation.
The original intent of the CDQ programs (founded 20 years ago by Congressional Action) was to “provide economic development in fisheries related activities” to the qualifying Western Alaska Coastal Area villages.
We can request Congress to enact a new Law that will bring the program back to square one with set rules and regulations on the expenditure of PUBLIC MONIES. In other words policies outlining ACCOUNTABILITY and TRANSPARENCY for all parties involved in managing the CDQ – Community Development Quota funds.
Perpetrators of domestic violence, become rabid and unhinged at the idea of someone having the gall to sue successfully to protect a woman or a child.This is a typical response by abusive leadership in Western Alaska, for the uninitiated.
ReplyDeleteBlogger on Jan 5 @ 9:50 AM said, “The bottom line for all of you guys is that we should just move out of western Alaska and live in the real world like everybody else.”
ReplyDeleteWe are in the “real world” and the blogger shows defeatism, can’t do anything so you might as well “move out”. It’s also unrealistic for you to direct us to go live somewhere else.
People are problem solvers. Problem solvers help the society function in a healthy fashion for everybody.
Declining Salmon Runs are a problem. Twenty years + of back door meetings and self-gratification on personal power gained from managing Public Monies is preventing us from making any progress for sustainable salmon returns.
Siu Corp. needs an anthem that embodies it's seafaring aspirations, and financial liquidity. We're taking nominations.OK! First up, "Tiny Bubbles",
ReplyDeleteby the great Don Ho!
ACCOUNTABILITY and TRANSPARENCY for NFA and its pull tab booze fund.
ReplyDeleteAs we head toward the designated date for the RPT meeting scheduled for January 23, 2012 at 9 AM in the Nome City Council Chambers to talk about the Norton Sound/Bering Strait comprehensive salmon plans beyond 2010(expiration year of the current RPT, keep this famous quote in mind:
ReplyDelete"Great people talk about ideas, average people talk about things, small people about wine" and each other or other people. Quote by Fran Lebowitz
And, if you have no plan to help solve the salmon problem, here is another quote to guide you:
"Live with integrity, respect the rights of other people, and follow your own bliss." Nathaniel Branden
I know quite a few people who drink sodas in the bars just to play pull tabs. It's a form of social entertainment in Nome.
ReplyDeleteGet your facts straight before you start blathering baloney.
Thanks to the blogger who quoted Nathaniel Branden.
ReplyDelete".......follow your own bliss." In other words, if you are happy with the salmon situation and the 20+ weak runs, then stay out of the way of those who want more salmon all around - that's what "....respect the rights of other people.." mean.
And, lastly, "Live with integrity,..." because you are teaching someone in your life bad habits that are hard to correct for someone outside your family unit.
That homie from Da Kleet tells us that we don't need no stinking chum salmon because he can dry a humpy in three days. Has anybody ever seen him dry a salmon in his life? 100s of our elders have given testimonie the AK Fish Board and last spring at the NMFS meeting at the mini they told them how important chums are to there livelihood and culture and how much it hurt them now that they can't catch chums. I guess homie thinks they were all lying about that. Guess what-he is the one that is lying.
ReplyDeleteWhy not just move aside and let constructive policies be enacted by people who wish a better future for our region?
ReplyDeleteThe Cherokee Nation's leaders were taught to think 7 generations ahead. Corporations are criticized for only looking toward the next quarterly report.
That near horizon,selfishness, and the lack of vision, leads our people to perish.
There is a long term stream of guaranteed revenue. So act in a way that assumes the potential of long term improvement.
Plant a tree now to shade your great grandchildren.
At one point in the history of Nome, there was the same amount of bars as there was churches.
ReplyDeleteTomorrow is the day of prayer for a big portion of the Nome people, and lets have a moment of silence to pray for those wanting to help the salmon survive for future generations and for those who continue to swear that lies are the truth.
Accountability. That should be the word for the day.
ReplyDeleteFrom 2001 to 2011, NSEDC spent $7.5 MILLION on salmon restoration and enhancement. So what have they got to show for it? Number one, they didn't have anything to do with the " fine salmon season for Norton Sound" Wes is blogging about. Not one penny of that $7.5 million went to increasing the fish Eastern Norton Sound fishermen caught in 2011. All of it got spent right around Nome.
You would think that there would be at least a report or something to show for all that money but there is nothing. Last year NSEDC and Fish and Game were saying that the NSEDC salmon program was responsible for the 140 silvers that ran up Dry Creek but they sent samples down to the ADF&G Mark, Tag and Age lab in Juneau and not a single one came back showing that it was one of NSEDC's fish. You can check the results online.
Strangely enough, they aren't saying much about Dry Creek this year but it kind of seems like you should get more than 140 fish for $7.5 million anyway.
The NSEDC board has been remarkably quiet about NSEDC's salmon restoration program. They don't ask a lot of questions about what it has accomplished or where the money has gone. Don't ask, don't tell seems to be the policy for CDQ program boards of directors.
Regarding comment
ReplyDeleteYes, it is a hypothesis that due to ocean carrying-capacity, hatchery salmon affect production of wild salmon in marine waters. But it is not quite true, that there is no data or analysis that might validate the hypothesis.
Naish et al "An Evaluation of the Effects of
Conservation and Fishery
Enhancement Hatcheries on
Wild Populations of Salmon" (2008 write:
"There is evidence, at least for some of the very large stock complexes, of
density-dependent growth. Thus increases in hatchery production might be
associated with smaller size and lower survival of those fish, and perhaps for
sympatric salmon of the same and even other species (Levin and Williams,
2002), and authors such as Cooney and Brodeur (1998) have discussed the
possible implications of marine carrying capacity for salmonid enhancement
efforts. However, the extent to which these effects occur in areas with
more dispersed production and lower overall densities is unclear. Perhaps
more fundamentally, does high density depress only growth or survival as
well? Evidence on this crucial point is much less clear, but recently
Ruggerone et al. (2003) reported that not only the growth but also the
survival of Bristol Bay sockeye salmon was depressed by the abundance of
Asian pink salmon. In addition, Levin and Schiewe (2001) concluded that
under conditions of naturally low ocean productivity, high densities of
hatchery Chinook salmon depress survival rates of wild conspecifics.
In general, the 1980s and 1990s have seen high abundance and survival
rates of Pacific salmon from the northern part of their North American
range, and ‘predator swamping’ effects might lead to a positive relationship
between abundance and survival rather than a negative one. Indeed, earlier
analysis indicated a positive relationship between survival of Babine Lake
sockeye salmon in British Columbia and the abundance of juvenile pink
salmon (Peterman, 1982). However, the question certainly needs further
work before this finding can be accepted as a general conclusion."
I fixed that for you.
ReplyDeleteNaish et al "An Evaluation of the Effects of Conservation and Fishery Enhancement Hatcheries on Wild Populations of Salmon" (2008 write:
"There is evidence, at least for some…might be associated…possible implications…is unclear. Perhaps…Evidence on this crucial point is much less clear…‘predator swamping’ effects might lead to a positive relationship between abundance and survival rather than a negative one…earlier analysis indicated a positive relationship between survival of Babine Lake sockeye salmon in British Columbia and the abundance of juvenile pink salmon…the question certainly needs further work before this finding can be accepted as a general conclusion."
No, I think you fixed it for you.
ReplyDeleteSo, what's your point? That the science is uncertain. No shit!
My point is that it is not science at all. It's pure speculation by guys like Greg Ruggerone and Jim Lichatowich with a preservationist agenda who think messing with mother nature is evul. They want us to return to a pristine wilderness utopia. Unfortunately, that really isn't an option.
ReplyDeleteTheir followers who insist that people in Norton Sound have to live without salmon to further their vision of ecological purity don't have to live with it themselves and can't quite grasp what it is like for people from thousands of years old salmon dependent cultures to not have salmon.
Hey, if there was another way, I'd be all for it but nobody has come up with an alternative that makes any sense at all. You may be willing to discount the impact of trawl bycatch and high seas interception but that is not reality. I know you won't go along with closing pollock trawl fisheries and salt water salmon fisheries just to find out if that would do any good.
If you have a viable alternate to hatchery production for the Nome area, don't be bashful, let us see it.
No messing with Mother Nature isn't necessarily evil, but is necessarily stupid, not to mention expensive.
ReplyDeletePWSAC barely makes their hatcheries work, and they have constant supplies of free flowing freshwater, large buildings in a temperate marine environment, supportive road infrastructure, ice free ports all year, easy access to Anchorage, etc... and if you think it's reliable and easy, you have no idea what they go through to make it happen.
ReplyDeleteYOU WILL NEVER MAKE IT STAND ON IT'S OWN.
FLY THE FISH IN, IT WILL BE MUCH CHEAPER.
You poor pathetic BOT bathroom scum, is there no lie to big no limit how low you will go.
ReplyDeleteIn one form or another, all of us are a result of some human modification of nature.
ReplyDeleteThe human hand is a complexorgan and evolved specifically to shape nature into forms that ensured humankinds survival. The real question is, are we using our power to transform in a biophilic manner? In short are we acting with reverence for life? What do we need to flourish as whole beings? Ancient sediment samples show times of abundance of salmon in the North Pacific alternating with periods of scarcity when the cold drove the productive zone of the Pacific toward southern California.
The longest and most recent period of Salmon abundance lasted 800 years and ended according to one sediment study in 1889. During that time on Kodiak Island, where part of the survey was conducted, indigenous people turned more & more from marine mammals to fish.
We are once again in an overall warming trend now since the mid 70's, and the productivity of the North Pacific, not to mention the Arctic should be increasing. Salmon, even in times of scarcity range from Siberia's Lena River, to the Coppermine Delta of Nunavut. There are reports from the arctic of recent colonization by king, red,and pink salmon, augmenting the ancient chum runs.
If you go to Google Earth and look at a satellite photograph of the Seward Peninsula, and the Yukon Delta you'll see a vast plankton bloom the base of the marine food chain, indicating prime salmon habitat offshore.
Ice, while sterile on the surface
is a living matrix churning with life underneath. And it's melt in the spring becomes a huge infusion of nutrients into the Bering Sea and Arctic Ocean. The Japanese time the release of hatchery fish with the peak fertility of the sea ice melt in their waters off Hokkaido. And study the temperature layering of the sea to forcast the abundance of the seasons plankton bloom.The knowledge is there in Japanese, Canadian, American, Russian, Chilean, & Argentinian,and Nordic nations studies. But my hunch is that when the warming arctic is taken into account, the productivity of northern seas is vastly underestinated.
FLY THE FISH IN, IT WILL BE MUCH CHEAPER. That's what I think use the big state hatchery in Anchorage and fly them to Nome.
ReplyDeleteHere is a Chinese proverb for the blogger who wants Nome people to "FLY" their "FISH IN":
ReplyDeleteGive a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.
The Natives in Western Alaska want a HAND-UP, not a HAND-OUT.
Few things that are worth doing are easy. I don't know all the details about what PSWAC goes through to provide stable large salmon runs that benefit the fishermen and the state of Alaska but I do know that what they are doing is working a whole lot better than what we are doing in Norton Sound. 343 silver salmon came back to the Snake River last summer. Fine season? You betcha.
ReplyDeleteHave you ever stopped to consider that cheaper may not always be better?
It's not about wasting money. Our fish,oil,minerals,& timber all come from the bush. They all leave. As often as not so do the people extracting them. Our leaders have learned to ape the worst examples. They're cashing out,selling out, and leaving. It's still really ours. It's only theirs because we're silent,fearful of loosing next to nothing. How do you as an individual exercise your vote? Cast a ballot for the devil you know or risk a difference?
ReplyDeleteThe greatest risk is continuing on the known path. It surely leads to failure.Continues a vicious cycle. Taking a risk, making an investment back into your resources breaks a defeatist approach and opens a better route forward.People were flourishing in Alaska thousands of years because they shared, cared, and loved risking everything on a hunch. Might still work if we rolled the dice.
Looks like Kleetus left the building folks. He loves dishing it out but can't stomach looking at his past in the mirror. Several hard hitting posts about the alleged predatory behavior of a board member have gone poof! You can run but you can't hide from the harm you inflict. It always comes back to bite you. I hope the Blog Master alerts authorities go to the servers and get all the other emails he has deleted off his personal email accounts, and text messages today, and END THE ALLEGED PREDATION! People across the nation are watching!
ReplyDeleteHeard there was a big file dump at Cowerak when he left. Everything.
ReplyDelete"People across the nation are watching!" - so right on the money. Some of the CDQs turned themselves into monsters and we cannot allow this farce to continue. It's not right that the Peoples Monies are used against the People who have a right to direct the Board Members who are being controlled by the monsters in management. They use dirty tricks to maintain their control. Keeping them down, keeping them dumb.
ReplyDeleteThe CDQs are heavily invested in the Pollock Fishery. They got involved without the consent of the people. Salmon Bycatch of the Pollock Fishery - that's one of the reasons why the Salmon runs have gotten weaker all over the state.
Get involved at the upcoming January 23rd meeting of the Norton Sound/Bering Strait Regional Planning Team meeting at the Nome City Council Chambers, 9 AM. We cannot allow the CDQ to be in control of our salmon resources anymore.
Yesterday, the blogger @3:51 PM said “No messing with Mother Nature isn’t necessarily evil, but is necessarily stupid, not to mention expensive.”
ReplyDelete“…messing with Mother Nature….is necessarily stupid, not to mention expensive.”
Everything we do with Fish and Game management is “messing with Mother Nature” and we are behaving “stupid” because we continue to allow people who don’t care jack squat about the general population enough to manage our salmon competently. 20+ years and look where we are at right now.
Competent managers are Problem Solvers. They know how to cut corners and operate efficiently in order to produce more for every buck spent. On the other hand, it’s the incompetent managers that are wasting the monies therefore making it “expensive”. We cannot continue to let those incompetent managers waste Public Monies. We know who they are. Bail them out of the boat and start over. Yesterday, the blogger @3:51 PM said “No messing with Mother Nature isn’t necessarily evil, but is necessarily stupid, not to mention expensive.”
“…messing with Mother Nature….is necessarily stupid, not to mention expensive.”
Everything we do with Fish and Game management is “messing with Mother Nature” and we are behaving “stupid” because we continue to allow people who don’t care jack squat about the general population enough to manage our salmon competently. 20+ years and look where we are at right now.
Competent managers are Problem Solvers. They know how to cut corners and operate efficiently in order to produce more for every buck spent. On the other hand, it’s the incompetent managers that are wasting the monies therefore making it “expensive”. We cannot continue to let those incompetent managers waste Public Monies. We know who they are. Bail them out of the boat and start over.
Wes
ReplyDeletePlease edit the last post. I accidently posted it twice. Thanks.
Thanks Wes for posting this article. The posts are great reading for a lazy Sunday morning.
ReplyDeleteThere were a few comments that got my attention:
Jan. 1 @ 10:48 AM said the problem is fixable if Norton Sound didn't have an "untainted regulatory system"?????
Since the word taint means "affect or affected by pollution, corruption, etc.", I'm wondering if the general population of Norton Sound knows that it's their right to oversee the Public Employees of State and Federal Agencies and Public Monies programs such as the CDQ program. Any citizen can and should file complaints to the proper divisions if regulators are indeed involved in "corruption".
Jan. 6 @12:18 PM said that "Most of the salmon runs to the Norton Sound are stable and healthy." contradicts what blogger on Jan. 6 @5:45 PM said "We have the only Tier II subsistence fishery in the state for any species."??
It looks like Norton Sound definitely has a problem with people influencing the managers of their salmon resources.
I'm hoping you report on the upcoming Norton Sound/Bering Strait Regional Planning Team meeting in Nome on January 23rd. Blogger on Jan. 2 @11:48 noted that the RPT voting members are 3 from Fish and Game(regulatory system)and 3 from NSEDC, the Pollock Fishery CDQ program. The current make-up is determential for the idea of fair and equal representation for all user groups according to the state regulations some other blogger posted.
"No messing with Mother Nature isn't necessarily evil, but is necessarily stupid, not to mention expensive."
ReplyDeleteDon't you thing that doing nothing about Norton Sound salmon stocks while they are driven to extinction is messing with Mother Nature?
In 2011 the Kwiniuk river tower counted 57 king salmon. 269 silvers made it through the Pilgrim River weir, the counting project on the Eldorado River reported that 489 pink salmon escaped to spawn. The last viable king salmon stock in Norton Sound is failing. The North River tower on the Unalakleet River counted 864 kings. In addition the male to female ratio in the run is heavily skewed with high proportions of males which makes things even worse than the raw numbers indicate. Isn't it stupid to not do anything about that?
The fine season Wes blogs about makes things worse for the already endangered kings. We have the same situation here that they have on the Yukon River. We can't harvest the chums without unacceptably high incidental king mortality. Chum gear kills kings.
Doing nothing may end up being the most expensive in the long run. Years ago it was reported that they were spending $6 million per Snake River Idaho king salmon. They have been pouring money into trying to restore Columbia system salmon for years with no end on the horizon and the amount of money that has been spend on Atlantic salmon recovery is unbelievable.
The head in the sand approach to fish management is the norm but it hasn't had a very stellar history if you think stupid and expensive are bad.
I read there has not been Tier II restrictions on the subsistence fishery since 2005. So, six season now without them. Why have them now? Maybe they need to get rid of them altogether?
ReplyDeletehand up not a hand out?
ReplyDeleteLets review Hudson Creek money pit again 2008 14 pinks,2009 1 chum 5 cohos,2010 4 chum 6 cohos look it up. N F A received 350,000 to run the facility that was in place already.N F A has its pull tab revenues lets say 30,000 a year for ten years.So $650,000 for 14 pinks, 5 chums, and 11 cohos. We would of been better off letting the fish N S A used for egg takes go,the returns would of been higher.
Where did you get your degrees in accounting and biometrics, Buckwheat? The University of Dyslexia?
ReplyDeleteMaybe it's not too late to get your money back.
“I read there has not been Tier II restrictions on the subsistence fishery since 2005. So, six season now without them. Why have them now? Maybe they need to get rid of them altogether?”
ReplyDeleteWell Forrest, you see when the Mommy fish and the Daddy fish really love each other, they kiss and do all kinds of other stuff on their spawning grounds that you and little Billy aren’t supposed to know about and the next year, you have brave little tiny baby fish swimming out to sea.
But sometimes, God and Chuck Bundrant, (I’m being redundant aren’t I?) don’t let enough Mommy and Daddy fish escape to go to the spawning grounds. That’s where Tier II kicks in.
Then that wise old Fish and Feathers guy says to all those simple folk trying to get some food for the winter in Norton Sound. Oopsy, the ol’ Gipper and Uncle NMFS screwed up again and we didn’t hold back enough for you subsistence fella’s when we were letting those big companies rape the Bering Sea. Now we know you’re not going to like it but you’re just going to have to buck up and tighten your belts again this winter so’s we can get at least a few baby fish out to sea next spring. I hope you understand, we don’t like to have to do this but it is for your own good. If you don’t understand, that’s just tough because we’ll send some State Troopers with guns to arrest yo ass if you don’t go along with it.
Tell you the truth, we were even thinking about lifting Tier II for you little fella’s but then the 2008 and 2009 chum salmon runs failed like they have so many times in the past and our hands are tied. I know, I know, it sucks to be you.
Note for the reader: This is an example of why it is so hard to involve high school dropouts in fisheries public policy decisions.
EerOre is such a dismal ass "OOoh bother I weight 350 lbs, ahhh better do something productive, hhmmm troll blogging sounds good to me"
ReplyDeleteYou underscore the bloggers point.
ReplyDeleteOuch, Ouch, Ouch for the "Public Figures" from Kawerak and their "VPSO nephew Dan Harrelson", who by the way is the Chairman of the NSEDC Board of Directors.
ReplyDeleteRoy Ashenfelter has been the Chairman of the Northern Norton Sound Fish and Game Advisory Committee for at least 20 years.
His wife Loretta of Kawerak has had her hand in the PIE for fisheries research, etc. for about that long as well.
Weak Salmon Runs for the Nome Area rivers at least 20 years.
One of the latest bloggers noted "It's a bit much to request they engage in a constructive exchange of ideas that would be of enormous benefit to their constituents." I have to agree.
As the self-appointed Tyrants of Native Sovereignty, they don't give you the time of the day if you are a nobody even if you are a butt smacker.
There must be some interesting closed to the public decisions made at their family gatherings.
Kawerak - for the region, NSEDC - for the region, Northern Norton Sound Fish and Game Advisory Committee - for part of the region.
ReplyDeleteBlogger who made reference to Ashenfelter's and their nephew Dan said "As Public Figures they know the responsibilities to the community they shoulder should not be borne lightly." Change the word "community" to REGION, the Norton Sound Region.
As corrected: Their responsibilities to the Norton Sound Region should not be borne lightly. That I'll agree with.
Same guy talking to himself on here now.
ReplyDeleteREGION IS RIGHT! Bob Walsh cared about the REGION! He helped the REGION! He had a strategy to develop the REGION! He still does! Dan felt getting Bob's salary for being CEO was more important than good stewardship for the REGION! Don thought controlling Siu Corp was more important than using the assets of the REGION'S CDQ assets for the benefit of the REGION! NSEDC is now a mockery, the flunky of all the CDQ flunkies! The board should give BOB a call, apologize for it's error, and get the REGION MOVING!
ReplyDeleteIn 2009, NSEDC paid Dan Harrelson $111,763 for 5 hours a week. That works out to $430 an hour. Talk about getting paid!
ReplyDeleteThey're Creepy,
ReplyDeleteAnd they're Kooky,
Mysterious,
And Spooky,
They're altogether Ooky,
The Addams Family!
The cheeky little fellow does do a a dead on "Uncle Fester" impersonation.
Possibly they'd fund a piranha hatchery?
NFA's hatchery returns 2008 14 pinks,2009 1 chum 5 cohos,2010 4 chum 6 cohos for $650,000 that's $21,666.666..... per fish.
ReplyDeleteNo, they're way ahead of you on that.
ReplyDeleteThey're teaching piranhas to blog.
So that explains why they're stingy here,
ReplyDeleteTheir house is,
A MUSEUM,
When people,
Come to See um,
They really,
Are a SCREAUM
THE ADDAMS FAMILY
The ADF&G Mark, Tag Age Lab in Juneau reports thermal otolith marks from 27 chum salmon and 6 silver salmon recovered from 2008 to 2010 that it attributed to NSEDC's salmon enhancement project.
ReplyDeleteDuring 2000-10 NSEDC reported spending $6,701,933 on salmon enhancement. Therefore using your simple formula, NSEDC spent $203,089 per fish or about ten times as much per fish as you say NFA spent.
Of course, the numbers of marked fish the MTA lab actually reports for NFA are not the same as you used and the operating costs are different but it doesn't really matter since your model is silly to start with.
That's not how you calculate cost per adult. Take a look at how John Clark does it.